Vision Battlesword [00:00:00]:
Well, here we are. James.

James Cano [00:00:01]:
Hey. Yeah. Finally.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:03]:
Finally. How long has it been that we've been planning this?

James Cano [00:00:06]:
Quite some time. At least six months.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:09]:
At least. At least. Yeah. When was it that your father passed?

James Cano [00:00:15]:
Nearly a year ago. May 22nd.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:20]:
Mine was two years ago on March 2nd for my father. Well, thanks for coming to sit with me and have this particular conversation, which, I mean, we always do deep conversations on this show. This might be the deepest one yet. And I can't think of anyone else I'd rather do it with. So I'm really grateful for you making this time and just this kind of container to share our experiences with each other.

James Cano [00:00:51]:
Well, thank you. I'm honored to sit here with you and have this conversation. You really, really touched me when I was going through those. Those tough times. And it was like your. The time that you reached out and the phone call, the conversation that we had still resonates with me. And I appreciate you being there and listening to me and making me feel heard and seen and one of my times when I needed it the most. I appreciate that and always will.

Vision Battlesword [00:01:23]:
Yeah, that conversation was really meaningful to me also at that moment. And I know I immediately wanted to do a conversation with you, like a. Like a recording about it, as you recall. But it feels like there's something more appropriate, now that I think about it, that we waited this long and just, like, really have let everything soak in and gone through our own integration processes. And like, there's a maturing of the. Of the. All the ideas that we want to talk about that feels like the time is right.

James Cano [00:01:56]:
Yeah, I agree.

Vision Battlesword [00:01:57]:
Well, I want to start with my first question that I always ask, which is, who are you? James Kano.

James Cano [00:02:03]:
Well, I guess lots of different things. A father, a brother, a friend. I've been here in Austin for 27 years. I love this town. I'm somebody who's, you know, we're on this journey, and you and I were on this. On this journey together, and. Funny question to be asked, but, yeah, I think as we dive in to this conversation, I think more facets of myself will be revealed, and we'll get a better understanding of who I. Who I am, and maybe some of the things that make me tick.

Vision Battlesword [00:02:47]:
I agree. So I've been thinking about what we're actually calling this topic. Are we here to talk about death? Does that make sense, or what do you think this is about?

James Cano [00:03:00]:
I think we knew when we spoke about it, and we had kind of kicked around this idea, it was how psychedelics and being in this community can play a part in helping us in this journey and, and this transformation that we have from this life, this space, into the next.

Vision Battlesword [00:03:22]:
Yeah.

James Cano [00:03:23]:
And our experiences, our relationships, things that we've learned as. As we all go along this path and how it can. How those experiences, how. How I have integrated them into my life and, and how I've found them useful as when my father passed. And also I'm currently, I have another family member who's also in that transition stage and. And I'm using those lessons learned and the things again with him as well.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:02]:
Yeah. Maybe the word is transition. Does that feel right?

James Cano [00:04:07]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:08]:
Yeah. So what is that? What is a transition? And I mean, of course it can mean a lot of different things, but right now it's a word that I often hear people use to refer to the end of life or the passage into death. We refer to, you know, someone has made the transition or they're in the process of transition. And I know you had a very, very personal and impactful experience of witnessing that or being a part of that. And I'm sure that we're going to get into that. But in this moment, just kind of like as a general concept, what do you think that is? What do you think that process is that we call transition?

James Cano [00:04:54]:
I think it's the next step, the next evolution in this journey where we were before we were born, this journey that we have in this particular life. And then it's the transition into that next phase where our soul, our energy, our spirit transitions into. I've heard Ram Dass was say that it's like taking off a shoe. You know, it's taken off a shoe that's grown too tight. And so then we transition into that next phase of our lives, of our existence. And as the ones who are here witnessing that transition, one of the things I try to incorporate, that I've learned from, even from yourself and from others, is holding space for a person. Really, it's just holding that space for somebody, creating a container. And whenever I had my experience with my father, I approached it the same way, and I implemented the same things from different ceremonies that I had been involved in, and even with my own medicine work and the type of container that I create for that ceremony, and I did that for my dad.

James Cano [00:06:24]:
And everything from the environment, the room, the lights, incense, music, comfort, just being there with an open heart, open mind, letting that person feel seen and heard and just being there for them. Maybe just a hand on the shoulder, wiping the sweater off the brow. Many of the things that we might do for somebody who's experiencing a psychedelic journey. I had really not very much experience with sitting with somebody who's passing. And so I just took those elements that I've learned from this community, the psychedelic community, and implemented those. And I felt like it was appropriate. It was the right thing. It felt right.

James Cano [00:07:18]:
And then the. The feedback that I would get from. From my father, it felt like I was on the right path, the right journey. This was the right thing to do. And so I just continued on with that. And typically, when we hold space for somebody during a ceremony, it can be a day, it could be hours. My experience, it lasted almost five months. And it can be.

James Cano [00:07:49]:
It can be. That can be a lot. It can really be a lot. It was a lot for myself. And that's when that somebody like yourself just reached out to me. And you reached out in the right time to kind of support me. Listen to me, let me. Let me vent and open up.

James Cano [00:08:10]:
And I really felt. Really felt heard. And it was the medicine that my soul needed at that time.

Vision Battlesword [00:08:17]:
There were so many things for me that were just radically powerful about hearing your story and the conversation that we had a year ago that you're referring to. But that piece about how you created a ceremonial container for your father while he was in his dying process was just, like, mind blowing for me. And I told you at the time, and I still feel this way now, which is why we're having this conversation and why I want to bring more light and awareness to the concept of what you did and open up the possibility that this can be a part of what we do for people in hospice or transition. You know, when people are nearing transition or even in an extended. Like, I'll reflect back to my own father and his situation. But many people have family members, parents, or others in their care that experience dementia, that experience a loss of cognitive function, let's just say. And that can go on for years. And so I think there's so many different situations, but this idea of taking the approach of the same kind of preparations and care and facilitation that we would in a plant medicine ceremony or a journey or any type of ceremonial work, shamanistic tools, if you will, to these situations, is just groundbreaking, I think.

Vision Battlesword [00:09:54]:
I really. I really believe that. And as I reflected to you in our phone call back then, it was something that I had in mind that occurred to me to want to offer for my father, But I didn't feel safe to even suggest it in the environment, you know, that I was in. And I really, you know, I have sadness about that and regret after hearing your story. But I'm also just so uplifted and feel so hopeful from hearing your story about what this could mean for others and how we can kind of spread this message and this idea, you know.

James Cano [00:10:34]:
Yeah, it can be. Certainly can be tough when, like you said, and you don't feel like you're. It's safe for you to do those things for the, the person that you love. And I certainly didn't feel supported either by the. By the other family members that were there, but in my role in this, I took care of my dad in the evenings. And so we had a lot of time to ourselves where I could really be myself, be authentic with him, and do all the different things without any kind of interruption. But then when there were other family members there, they just didn't really understand because of their own beliefs. And it was.

James Cano [00:11:28]:
It was very. That was one of the hardest parts to me. That was like heartbreaking for me when I was opening up my heart, opening up my soul, doing all the things that I felt, and it was kind of frowned upon and not accepted, and it just. It just hurt me deeply. It really hurt me deeply. But in the moments that I had, the time that I spent with my dad, he opened up to me. And even though he was a man of great faith, he had his own beliefs and he believed, you know, and they were very deep, but he still had fear. He still had a lot of fear.

James Cano [00:12:14]:
And I listened to him and. And then I was able to share with him some of. Some of my experiences with my psychedelic work that I had shared with you and I can share now. When I. When I began working with psychedelics as an. As an adult in the beginning of 2023, I had some experiences where were like, near death experiences where I. I died. I had experienced death.

James Cano [00:12:48]:
And what I. One of the things I took away from it was that death was nothing to be feared. And. And to me was actually one of the greatest gifts that we have in that without dying, you can never come into the full presence of God because it's clouded with our current karma, with our current ego, with our. With all of the perceptions that we have that are cloud. Clouded with this mind. But with death, all of that is stripped away. And I remember walking in.

James Cano [00:13:26]:
Death was right here next to me, on my right side and walking with me.

Vision Battlesword [00:13:31]:
And it was in a journey that you had.

James Cano [00:13:33]:
It was in a journey that I had. And then we got to a certain point where death couldn't go with me any further. And I had to take those steps on my own. And that's when I walked into the presence of God. Then I was with God and he showed me all of the miracles that are performed on this earth. It's. It's almost. It's.

James Cano [00:13:58]:
It's so powerful that there's really. It's ineffable. There's really hardly any words that I can use to fully transmit what it meant to me. You know, it's just such a deep experience. As the journey ended and I came back to myself and I was like, wow, that. Geez, what. What an experience is that? Like, how am I supposed to integrate that? How does that work in my life? How do I. What do I do with that? And I would.

James Cano [00:14:31]:
I had heard that these psychedelic experiences that we have, sometimes we can integrate that. And you'll see things in your life where you're like, ah, like big aha moments. And like, wow, I can really stop doing that or I can start doing this. And I was like, but you can integrate something immediately. You can integrate it within a week, or it could be years down the road. And for me, it was the latter, where it wasn't until a year later where those deep experiences of dying, coming into the presence of God, having him show me all of the different aspects and miracles that happened throughout this existence. It wasn't until I was sitting with my father and he was sharing with me his fear of death. And then I opened up to him and I shared with him my experience.

James Cano [00:15:30]:
And it brought comfort to him. It brought a lot of comfort to him. And I remember him looking over to.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:37]:
Me.

James Cano [00:15:40]:
And saying, how do you know? How. How do you know? And.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:51]:
He.

James Cano [00:15:52]:
He said, he. You're. You're not from here. He told me, I. I see you. I see you. It was the first time I was ever felt seen by my father. Man.

James Cano [00:16:09]:
That was one of the final gifts that I was given was to be seen by my father. And so sharing that with him, it was healing for both of us. He eased his fear of dying, and it eased that part of me and my heart of finally being seen by the one person that I ever really wanted to be seen by. That felt like a miracle.

Vision Battlesword [00:16:36]:
Can only imagine what kind of gift that felt like for him. To have that kind of comfort, to. To have some kind of surety, some kind of certainty that, okay, I know what's. I know what's coming, and it's going to be okay.

James Cano [00:16:52]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:16:52]:
And death is not my enemy. No, death is going to Walk with me.

James Cano [00:16:57]:
That's right. And it's. It's not. It's not a belief, it's a knowing. I know deep inside I carry that with me, that comfort of knowing. And I currently have somebody in my. Like I had mentioned in my family right now. And so I go and visit and I do all of the same things with him.

James Cano [00:17:26]:
Create that container when I go, create that space. Allow him to know that I'm here. I see him, I care for him. Open up my heart. I'll take care of them. One of the things that I learned from taking care of my dad and. And what I'm practicing now is. It's kind of intimate, I guess, for a man is to.

James Cano [00:17:50]:
Is to shave him, to give him a shave. Just. I'm not a barber. I've never. I've shaved quite a bit and I've had my hair quite a few cut quite a few times. And it's just like I just. What I've seen, what I felt, what I've looked in the mirror when somebody's doing it to me, I practice that to him. When my father.

James Cano [00:18:18]:
The morning that my dad passed, I went. Went to his home and opened up the doors of his room and prepared to give him a shave and brought in the hot water and the towels, the razors and the shaving cream and put that hot towel on his face to relax the hair. And to relax him, I put on the music. Some East Forest. He had an album called Still Possible. It's something that just. Just really resonated with us, with me. And I began to shave him.

James Cano [00:19:06]:
I remember putting the towel over his face, under his nose, and I could see the towel being sucked in from his breath. And then I removed it and began to shave him. I finally provided him. Created that place for him to finally let go, just let go. Just surrender the same way we do when it's safe. You know that you have that person there with you, that it's going to be okay. And then you can just open your heart and let it go. And when I finally finished the last stroke of the razor and I brought that towel up to wipe the.

James Cano [00:19:50]:
Wipe the shaving cream away. My brother who was in the room, he said, is dead breathing. And I had already seen. I saw it when his spirit left in my hands. When I was holding his face, he let go. And then I said goodbye. And others from the family came in and said goodbye. But that has been the greatest honor to be in that position, to do that for him.

James Cano [00:20:28]:
I wouldn't want him to be anywhere else in the world doing any other thing. That was it.

Vision Battlesword [00:20:38]:
There's a few different things you said that I want to. I want to explore some and thank you so much for that share. That's one of the most powerful things I've ever heard. One thing that feels really important to me is the point you made about your experience. You called it a near death experience, where you said you've had several. And I think I have also, I can relate. But that near death experience, which happened for you at least one of them, in a psychedelic journey, we would call it, when you walked with death, death guided you down a path and then released you to God. And how that changed you, how it changed your experience of life forever, that you say you carry it with you now.

Vision Battlesword [00:21:28]:
And there's something about that that's so quintessential. There's just so many. There's so many wisdom traditions, there's so many wise people, so many philosophies, so many revelations that point back to that same experience that we have to, in some way, we have to face and embrace death before we can be truly alive. And I think for some people, they can go their whole life, all the way up to the moment just before death without having that experience yet, but we all eventually do. Yeah, but to have it earlier is. Is a true gift, is a true miracle. To be able to have some part of life with that knowing, that inner transformation, that inner transition having already taken place, at least in some form, which alters our experience of life in a profound way. And you gave that gift to your father so that he could have some of that time.

Vision Battlesword [00:22:34]:
But yeah, I just keep reflecting on all of the different forms that that same message has been given to us over and over and over and over again.

James Cano [00:22:43]:
Right.

Vision Battlesword [00:22:43]:
You know, it's just the same message. Go to any religion, any mystery school, any philosophy, you find that same message as one of the key truths about life. Certainly the other thing that you taught, you told me about in our earlier phone call that we haven't touched on yet is, and I noticed this also in my experience with my father, which is one of the things we connected on. But you were telling me before about how the idea of starting to bring some of the elements of ceremony and journey work to your father's dying process and the hospice process with him came from noticing that he seemed to be having a psychedelic experience while going through this extended transition. Do you want to tell me a little bit about that? Because I just think that's so fascinating and I wonder if it's an experience that other people can relate to as well.

James Cano [00:23:42]:
Yes, it was like in those evenings that we had together, some of the things he was saying were like he was having a psychedelic experience. The same. He used the same ways to describe what he was feeling and seeing. Experiencing.

Vision Battlesword [00:23:59]:
Are you open to just sharing also, kind of for context and to refresh my memory, what kind of health issues was your father having at the time? Just so that I can understand and anyone else, what his frame of mind might have been like while he was in this. These experiences?

James Cano [00:24:16]:
Sure. His, his diabetes had finally caused his kidneys to shut down. And so he had been on dialysis for quite a while. They were going to give him a kidney transplant. And during their workup for that transplant, they found his heart. He had congenitive heart failure. And so with that they tried all sorts of different things. Swapping out the valves, putting in stents.

James Cano [00:24:47]:
Lord knows, several different operations to try, but eventually it was his heart that failed him. And so with that, I think maybe like some decreased blood flow to the brain, which can maybe caused some altered states of consciousness. Right. And so some of the things that he would say, he'd sit there and he's like, am I, am I dead? Am I still here? I can't tell what dimension I am in. Those were his words and some of the same verbiage that we use. What dimension am I in? Am I here? Did I cross, pass over? Like, who, where, where are you from? Like, you're not from this place. Because I, I held that space for him and let him know that it's okay, that I too have had these experiences. I too have not known what dimension I was in.

James Cano [00:25:56]:
And to have somebody there who's grounded to hold that space for me and let me know that it's okay. This too shall pass. You're safe. I've got you. And to, for me, some of the grounding things that really bring me back, or the smell of palo santo burning that incense. Having East Forest has always been a. A big part of my journeys. Using his music to guide me.

James Cano [00:26:29]:
And so I let that music guide my dad and let that be in the environment. Let that permeate, let the smell of incense, the lights, sometimes using like a sound bath is also very nice and calming. And grounding, it was, it was really was something else. And I'm so glad that I had. Earlier in that year or the previous year, I had went to Psychedelic Science in Denver and had taken some workshops on guiding psilocybin journeys. And what to expect and during challenging experiences, what can we do for that person to help ground them and bring them back? And. And so I utilize all of those things that I had read and been part of and experienced myself.

Vision Battlesword [00:27:25]:
Are they the sorts of things you were just talking about? Sound baths and incense, music. Is there anything else that you learned that was particularly useful?

James Cano [00:27:35]:
Maybe that. That energy that you bring, it's almost something that you can't quite learn. Having that energy. You have that energy where I feel like I can talk to you and I can tell, I can see behind your eyes, it seems, where I'm not being judged and that you really are genuinely interested and curious and having that genuine curiosity, just really listen. But to do that for somebody else, just to bring that energy, just that open heart, I guess another way I can put it, just to be there for that person, let them know that they. It's okay, that they're safe, all their feelings, that they're having, all the thoughts, all any way that they can try to communicate that to you. Even though that may not even be language that they have used before. Talking about dimensions and different things like this.

James Cano [00:28:38]:
That. That's okay. It's all right.

Vision Battlesword [00:28:42]:
That's such a deep insight. I think what I'm picking up from what you just said, which I fully agree with, is that there's a relationship between how safe people feel with another person and how much or whether or not they feel like they are being or could be judged. And there's like a sort of reciprocal equation between judgment and humility. And I think that curiosity is like the secret key because it almost seems to me that engaging in sincere and genuine curiosity, it like evaporates self importance, judgment, you know, it's just they can't coexist. If I'm being genuinely curious, then I'm automatically in a posture of open mindedness, Willingness to listen. Not just willingness, but excitement, you know, interest. I'm in a learning mode. And yeah, there's just something so powerful about that frame of reference and that context shift that just, it really creates safety, intimacy and connection.

Vision Battlesword [00:29:58]:
You think?

James Cano [00:30:00]:
For sure, yes. And then having that, that connection, it's like, it's like a sacred connection.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:06]:
Yeah.

James Cano [00:30:07]:
It's not really a connection that you can have with just anybody. And then being in especially that connection that we have when we're. When you're holding space for somebody and in a sacred ceremony and also dying can also be looked at as another sacred ceremony. That's how I. That's how I held it. Yeah. Just it's something that comes from, from within. And just like medicine, work may not be for everybody.

James Cano [00:30:37]:
I also think that this type of work may not be for everybody. But then you just might find yourself in this position with somebody that you love, somebody that you care for, could be a dear friend. It might even be somebody who might have been kind of distant. But then if you listen to your heart and open up, don't resist. Just like my. My uncle right now. Our connection is from 40 years ago. Yet there's something inside me that's calling me to care, to love, to.

James Cano [00:31:17]:
To open up, to be there. Drive several hours to go just to shave him and let him know that somebody cares for you. Somebody loves you. You owe me nothing, and there's nothing in return that you can give me. This is, I think, for me, it's a way of opening yourself up to pure love.

Vision Battlesword [00:31:40]:
When you talk about death as a sacred ceremony, it's just like my mind is melting over here right now just thinking about how antithetical that is, that concept is in our culture to most people. To the vast majority of people.

James Cano [00:31:58]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:31:58]:
Like, the way we approach death is. I mean, to say we go out kicking and screaming is an understatement. Like, clinging to it. We're clinging to whatever shreds of what we could call life, you know, with our last, you know, with our fingernails being dragged out the door. And I would just wonder how much different it would be. And I'm also curious in this moment right now, because I haven't researched it, like, what other cultures, traditions of death and dying look like now and in the past as well. I mean, certainly I can think of some classic examples that. That, you know, come to mind.

Vision Battlesword [00:32:39]:
But I'm just curious, you know, how different would it be? Okay, so I'm going to go parenthetical for one moment and just say. I remember recently in the last couple of weeks, someone mentioning to me that they were going to a celebration of life gathering for someone who had recently passed. And now it occurs to me, in this moment, why do we wait until after someone has passed to celebrate their life? What if. What would it be like if we treated the dying process, the transition process, as a ceremony while the person was still alive in the way that you did. But additionally, you know, above and beyond wanting to care for someone's comfort, ensure they have a sense of belonging, a sense of being loved, a sense of safety, creating that space for them to truly relax and surrender and let go in a peaceful way. You know, what if also we could create a container of joy and celebration in some way. And just thinking about the structure, the kind of classic structure of a medicine ceremony, thinking about opening circle, the journey in between closing circle and integration, you know, there's. There's a lot of moments there that can be challenging.

Vision Battlesword [00:34:02]:
There's moments that can be frightening sometimes. There's moments when we request and receive support. There's moments when we go into the unknown and we may feel confused. We may receive a revelation, we may receive enlightenment, we may experience transformation. And then we have a celebration. Most times we did it. We completed the hero's journey. We're back, we're different, we're better, maybe, I hope.

Vision Battlesword [00:34:33]:
But at any rate, we're here and we're together. And isn't this life incredible? That's how I often feel at the end, you know, during the integration process of a ceremony. What would it be like if we created that opportunity for people when we know that we're at the end of our personal journey in this dimension, whatever it is? What do you think?

James Cano [00:35:00]:
Yeah, I completely agree. I think somehow we can prepare ourselves for the end, whatever that means, through maybe spirituality, religion, psychedelics. But we have these experiences that we had spoken about. So then when we're at the end, during this ceremony of death, instead of having to deal with the fears of dying and being walked through and helped through that, but instead we are having these revelations and we're able to celebrate our life. I think we can have that celebration of life there at the end with the people who are gathered around us. But then, even if we do have those fears and then we overcome them, and there may be glimpses and openings and opportunities to celebrate and to look back and reflect on our lives and the people that we touched and the connections that we've had, I think we should take those opportunities and take those moments and those openings to do that and not to wait until the person is in the ground.

Vision Battlesword [00:36:23]:
Yeah. I wanted to reflect it back for a moment to my experience with my father and how different it was than yours. And in certain ways, I. I feel very sad about. I would say that the experience that my father had as compared to yours was much more mainstream. What I described, you know, what I described a few moments ago, and I want to get more clear on that. I want to dial in on that. What it looks like to me that the default setting of what it looks like to be nearing end of life in America or in Western culture, in the medical industrial system, I think I'll also say is it looks first and foremost, like a denial.

Vision Battlesword [00:37:15]:
I think denial of death is the number one feature that I notice. It's a taboo. We're not supposed to talk about it. We're supposed to pretend like it's not really happening. We're supposed to pretend like we're just one magical procedure or intervention or something away from. Everything's going to be back to normal, and we're going to be in this space of indefinite life, which is not realistic often, but even the person themselves, at least, I guess speaking just from my own experience, seems to be in that denial. No matter how far things go, no matter. No matter how difficult it gets, there's this.

Vision Battlesword [00:37:56]:
There's this some kind of, like, fantastical thinking that it's like, okay, well, this is just going to go on now like this forever, or maybe it'll even get better from here. I'm not saying it can't. And I'm not saying that people don't recover from things or go through slumps and improvements. And I'm not. I'm not saying that. But it's also true that oftentimes there are realities that I think people are afraid to acknowledge and just sort of come to terms with, to integrate, to use our word, to, like, integrate the reality of this is what's happening. And I just. I imagine how much better it could be if we did that.

Vision Battlesword [00:38:41]:
If we could just have real talk, you know, like, there comes a point sometimes with a family member, with a parent maybe in particular, where you have to have real talk about, like, we're not going to be driving anymore or whatever. Whatever those things are. I just wish we could have real talk all the time about, like, this is where we're at, you know. Yeah, this is what it looks like. What are your wishes in this situation? I don't think my father was asked that question. And it really bothers me. It really bothers me that I wanted. I wanted that question to be presence.

Vision Battlesword [00:39:16]:
I wanted to have some. Some level of a conversation. Even at times when the people around him were saying that he could not communicate. And that was not my experience of him at all. I feel I was able to communicate with him. He was having a lot of difficulty communicating, for sure, but he was like, he was there. Yeah, I was able to get in touch with him. You know, we were able to exchange information.

Vision Battlesword [00:39:42]:
I was able to get intentions from him. But there was this environment that was created of somehow, like, protecting him from the truth or something like that, or, you know, as if he would be more comfortable or he would be less afraid or something if we all just kind of pretend like, oh, you know, I don't know what. But, you know, like, I would love to just have. Be able to have that conversation. I'm sure many. I'm sure there are families that do. I'm sure this is not something that's completely foreign to a lot of people, but to just be able to, like, get together in a room at whatever level or capacity someone's at and, like, really find out what their wishes are, what their intentions are, like, where do you want to go from here? Do you want to keep doing these operations, these procedures, this extension, whatever that looks like, or would you like to have a party, you know?

James Cano [00:40:38]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:40:38]:
Would you. Would you like to, like, bring everyone together now and spend some time? Spend some quality time, whatever that looks like for you? How can we make you comfortable? How can we make this easier? Would you like to try some, maybe different ideas for what this could be like? And one of those different ideas, you know, for my father. My father suffered from dementia. He also suffered from. I don't want to say suffered. I'm going to change my language there. My father had heart attacks. He had a stroke.

Vision Battlesword [00:41:09]:
And after his stroke, he went into a period of five to six years of a slow but relatively steady cognitive decline that culminated with difficulty with motor control and especially with verbal communication and confusion when I was spending time with him just at the very, very end of his life. And like I said, when I was communicating with him, I also noticed the same kind of interesting similarities that you did with your father about the way some of the things he would say and some of the things he would describe that really got. Gave me the impression that either he's just really, really getting mixed up with his words in a. Just a very peculiar, peculiarly random way, or he's tripping one or the other. And it was difficult for me to square the circle of this sequence of words coming out in this particular order being just random as compared to. He's experiencing some things that are altered states of awareness right now. It made me start thinking about psychedelics and what we know about them as a medicine, and neuroplasticity and the kind of mental rewirings and mental restructurings that we know from so much vast experience, accumulated lived experience that we have now is not only possible, but typical for people when using some of these medicines in a particular. In a.

Vision Battlesword [00:42:45]:
In a. In a facilitated and an intentional way. And it made me think about, like, gosh, I wonder if some of this Cognitive decline could be improved or could be reversible in some way through the intentional use of, let's say, psilocybin, for example. But I never. Again, I didn't. I was. I guess I was too afraid I'll just take ownership of it for myself to even broach the topic within that environment. And it may have been, well, too late by that point to help my father in that way.

Vision Battlesword [00:43:17]:
But I also wonder if those experiences could help them in their dying process too. Help them find some peace or ease in some way. I don't know, but that was a lot. So I'm just curious what you think about all of those things.

James Cano [00:43:32]:
Yeah, so. So the first part about how the Western medical industry kind of treats death and dying. It's just very number one taboo. And I think my experience, they kind of try to keep the family's hope alive and by trying all of these different procedures and stuff. And really, I think deep down we all know what the end is in sight. And is it for the patient or is it for the family and the people around them to make the. Them feel like they did everything they possibly could?

Vision Battlesword [00:44:14]:
That's right.

James Cano [00:44:15]:
This person. And one of the things I saw was my. My brother had the medical power of attorney, and my dad had expressed his wishes to him that, hey, you know, whatever it takes, you know, do. Do what it takes to help me out, okay? And so then my brother, he had that guiding post. He was like, I'm gonna follow my father's wishes everything in all of my might. But then I think, well, I don't think my father, he kind of changed his mind when the suffering started coming and the pain and everything, he kind of changed his mind. Like, here I am, I'm at the end, and I want to go home and I want to be in my home. I want to end my life there.

James Cano [00:45:03]:
I want. This is what I want. But then my. He had already expressed his wishes and given up his. His agency to my brother, who had that. That piece of paper and that guiding post to do whatever the hell it takes to save my father. And so then I. I saw what my father.

James Cano [00:45:25]:
Where he was at and what he wanted. But yet my brothers, they, you know, and they're have their own Christian faith and that they can believe in miracles and that healings can happen and so on and so forth and more of a realist. And I can really see what's going on. I see that my dad is what he's suffering and going through and that he changes mind and to change Your mind is okay when you get into the middle of it and you're like, dang, this is something else. It's not what I thought. And then finally they had that conversation, that real talk. The doctor finally came in and talk, had that talk with my brother saying there, there is no more therapy, there are no more operations. Just need to go home and make this, make him comfortable.

James Cano [00:46:23]:
You know, something I had been saying, but really rejected. And that's where when you and I spoke, I was in, I was torn up not being heard and not being seen and being rejected by my family and oh my God, it was like really torturous. It was hell. But finally my dad, he made it home and we had the hospice at home and finally my brothers were on board with making them comfortable. So, yeah, it's, I think that other doctors, they, you know, they, they do what they think is best, but also think that they can also play on the family's hopes and wishes and prayers and their faith and all of that and not really have that real talk with them sooner.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:15]:
And well, it's like if, if you don't mind me jumping in real quick, it's, it's like, it's like a self reinforcing loop though, you know, Like, I don't, I don't assign like full blame or responsibility to the medical sure side of it, although I do think they have incentives and they also have protocols, which is a whole different can of worms. But it's also like, yeah, whoever the caretakers are on the family side, I think you hit the nail on the head and you didn't actually say the word, but I'm going to say it, the word is guilt. I think people have a natural desire to absolve themselves of guilt, which is like natural and respectable and honorable even, but also a little bit selfish, you know, And I definitely think I saw that in my family situation.

James Cano [00:48:09]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:48:09]:
You know, that, that, that is so. It's like, it's like a synergistic relationship between the family and the doctors, you know, where the family wants hope and they also want to relieve themselves of the responsibility, you know, well, this is what the doctor says. This is what the next step could be. This is, you know, whatever that looks like. And nobody wants to just have the conversation about where are we at, what can we do and what is best, what is best for me, what is best for us, what is best for the situation and what ends up happening. This is the part. And this, this is what happened to my father. And this is the part that really breaks my heart for myself and for many other people, for my dad more than anyone else.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:01]:
But for many other people is that I think a lot of people end up dying without dignity. They end up dying in a way that is not what they would choose for themselves if they were. With full presence of mind and body and agency. And instead they end up dying in a. I don't know. I don't know what to say about it, but you know what I mean. Like, your father got to die at home while being shaved by his son. That's amazing.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:37]:
That's incredible. That's beautiful. That is a miracle. My father. I'm just going to be direct about it. My father died on a ventilator in a nursing home while being pumped full of morphine after testing positive for something that I don't believe he had. And I'm angry about that. I'm angry about that.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:59]:
And I'm also ashamed that I didn't take more responsibility like you did.

James Cano [00:50:09]:
It's okay, brother. Give yourself some grace at the time. I'm sure that you did everything that you could at the time.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:25]:
Yeah. Thanks for saying that. Welcome back to Real Talk on sacred conversations with Vision Battlesworth. We're getting deep in the weeds on death and transition here with James Kano. So back to you, James.

James Cano [00:50:43]:
Yes. So second part of your. Your statement earlier of what you had mentioned was. And something that I didn't do that I did have a conversation with hospice about providing my father with some medicine. And I had just came across and I had shared with you the sublingual psilocin strips that were able to be absorbed just by placing into the mouth. And it seemed like that was the. That was a way that I could provide that for my father. And it wasn't there and it wasn't until the very end.

James Cano [00:51:23]:
And I think he might have been just too far gone to have gotten proper use out of the medicine. I think maybe a little bit earlier in that. In that transition may have been a proper time, but I had received the medicine a little bit too late. But I do think that would have liked to have to have shared that medicine with my. With my dad. You know, they did provide me with other medicines like you had mentioned, with morphine and fentanyl and those things. And I did provide that for him. And after a short while, he rejected it.

James Cano [00:52:10]:
He just rejected it. He was never really one to. To take that type of medicine or anything like that. And so I. I did my best to. To provide that. That comfort for him. How I thought he may have needed it, but in the end, with his last little bit of agency, he rejected it, would spit it out.

James Cano [00:52:36]:
I would crush it up and make it soluble in water and put it into, like, a syringe and then provide it to him in his mouth. Put it in there. And with his last little bit of effort, the last little bit of agency that he had in him, he would spit it out. And so then it wasn't for me to impose upon him really, what he did not want. So I did respect that.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:06]:
You think he just wanted to feel what he was feeling?

James Cano [00:53:10]:
I think so. And I've thought about this for myself, too. That last thing that we. That we have in this life, that one last spark, whatever that might be when it fades or transitions, do I want to be doped up, completely out of it on opioids, passed out? I don't think so.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:34]:
This is the whole philosophy, though, you know, this is what I'm talking about. It's the. It's. It's in our culture.

James Cano [00:53:41]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:42]:
It's in our culture that, like, this is the. The thinking, this is the wisdom, that you put it off as long as possible. You prolong your life at any cost. No. No matter the quality. And when all else fails, put yourself to sleep. Don't even be aware of it when it happens. As if.

Vision Battlesword [00:54:02]:
And I think this circles all the way back around to the beginning of our conversation, as if that transition is the worst thing that we can imagine. We're so afraid of it.

James Cano [00:54:14]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:54:14]:
We have some imagination about what it is or what it means that it's like. It's the worst thing. Why do you think we think that? Why do we imagine that?

James Cano [00:54:24]:
I think it could be kind of rooted in some religion as well. I was recently invited to. It was like a book club or like a study of Ecclesiastes. And just to kind of go over that book and kind of get, you know, just read into it. And I was interested in the book itself, and. And as they got up there and they were talking about it, what I kept hearing, and this is from, like, a Christian church, they kept referring to death as the enemy and that the enemy is death. The enemy that is the enemy, and we should avoid it at all costs. Right.

James Cano [00:55:02]:
And then we would circle into our table and then have a discussion within just a few of us that were sitting at the table. And I just shared with them. What I shared with you is that in my experience, that death is not the enemy. It's actually the greatest gift that we can't be. We cannot experience the full glory of God without dying. So how is death the enemy when it ushers us into the. The thing that you're preaching about? It contradicts itself.

Vision Battlesword [00:55:37]:
Yeah.

James Cano [00:55:38]:
And so then with that continuously saying that death is the enemy, then let's numb ourselves to it. Let's complete, let's avoid it, let's not talk about it. It's taboo. What are the procedures that we can do to prolong ourselves for another week or month? I think is deeply ingrained in our society. Like you were saying.

Vision Battlesword [00:56:00]:
No, that's key, what you just said. That that is exactly how we think of it. We think of death as an adversary, as an enemy, as a monster. Just think about the visual of the Grim Reaper. Yeah, it's a literal monster. A skeleton with a sickle, with a hooded robe that carries a scythe to cut you down, to cut down the living. It's wild when you think about that imagery.

James Cano [00:56:29]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:56:29]:
Where does that even come from? Do you know?

James Cano [00:56:31]:
No, I don't know.

Vision Battlesword [00:56:32]:
I want to look into it now. What's the origin of the Grim Reaper? There's a similar level of interest to me in the classic image of the devil. Sure, that's a construct, that's an assemblage of multiple different kind of myths and stories and religious traditions and things, but it's like this intentionally created monster figure to embody all of these evil intentions and characteristics and traits and so forth. I feel certain that if I go back and research, I'll find something similar for the so called Grim Reaper. That it's like, oh, yeah, it was created at some point in time, but it just really highlights this whole point that we're talking about, which is this is one of those concepts that, that we start absorbing through culture and our conditioning, like practically from birth, this idea of fear of death. I know when it started for me. I remember it very, very clearly, the age that I was at. Have you feared death before you had your revelation in journey work? Were you afraid of death?

James Cano [00:57:48]:
No, I wouldn't say I ever feared it. Maybe taunted it, got to the edge, pushed my limits, taken risks, unnecessary risks like scuba diving and things like that, and putting myself in position where I may not have made it back. And so I wouldn't say that I had a fear of death or maybe I wouldn't have put myself in those positions to kind of push my envelope to find out how much have I got? How far can I go? But I do have respect for it, you know, that's what makes life so precious is that death can come so easy.

Vision Battlesword [00:58:27]:
Why do you think so many people fear it like some people are terrified of it? I know there was a period of my life when I was maybe the.

James Cano [00:58:35]:
Unknown of what's past it, maybe not living a life that's fully lived, maybe seeking the things that bring us pleasure instead of seeking the things that really have weight and meaning and depth, connection and love. I think if we can live our life fully to that and be true to ourselves, then there's less to fear, if anything at all.

Vision Battlesword [00:59:03]:
You know, something just occurred to me. Do you think that there's a connection between how generally secular, at least as a percentage, how generally atheist or at least agnostic, let's say, our Western civilization has become, and in increasing the amount that people fear and try to avoid or postpone death, that just kind of occurred to me in terms of my own experience thinking back. I remember when the switch flipped for me. I think I was age 4 or 5, and suddenly I had this fear of death. Suddenly I just. I had this realization, this epiphany. I don't know what happened. If there was some conversation that I had with my parents or I read something in a book, I have no idea what triggered it.

Vision Battlesword [00:59:53]:
But there was a moment I was playing in my room. I remember very clearly. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I'm going to die. That's scary. Like, that's terrifying.

James Cano [01:00:03]:
And.

Vision Battlesword [01:00:03]:
And I carried it with me for many years after that, had trouble sleeping because of it. And also I had no religion or spiritual tradition at all in my family of origin. And so it's just occurring to me in this moment to make that connection, to say, I wonder if that's a part of it when you're not provided with anything to fill the void. What's your cosmology like? I don't know. I guess everything goes black. Everything stops. I can't even imagine what that is or what that's like. Yeah, you know, like that would be scary.

Vision Battlesword [01:00:43]:
Yeah. What's worse, not knowing or imagining an afterlife? What do you think about that? Do you think we have more fear of death in our culture because it's more secular and maybe more atheist or agnostic versus other cultures that have a stronger religious tradition or spiritual at least.

James Cano [01:01:03]:
I think having something to believe in, regardless of your religion, can really help alleviate some of that fear. Kind of gives you some hope, kind of like a guidepost on how to live your life. And if you can hit the these marks and live this way then you may be rewarded. It's some religions, you know, say that you'll be rewarded with this or that you can be promised an everlasting or eternal life. I think the alternative would be, for me, kind of scary that there's one day that you'll close your eyes and it's like going to sleep and not having a dream and just never waking up again. And that was that. And so then it doesn't matter what you do or how you live your life because there's no consequence or anything like that. I think I like to format.

Vision Battlesword [01:01:59]:
Yeah. There's a lot of interesting implications for what the meaning of life is depending on what you think happens after life or at the moment of death, whatever. Because like if the reality is what you described, where you close your eyes, you go to sleep and you have no dream, black void version of death.

James Cano [01:02:22]:
That you're not even aware of.

Vision Battlesword [01:02:24]:
Yeah. No awareness, cease of awareness, cease of consciousness. Spark of life goes out like a light switch and now it's just a bag of bones, bag of meat and bones or whatever material. If there's no consequence. That's an interesting word you brought up and not really thought of it quite in these terms before. But if there's no consequence in death to how you've lived your life, that's kind of scary in the sense that that would mean anyone could do anything and it don't even matter without consequences. I think that's more terrifying for life than it is for death. Meaning, like what then do we use as our code of conduct? Morality in that case? And I'm not making an argument right now, we're kind of going definitely on a side trail from the whole conversation about transition in a way into something about moral relativism.

Vision Battlesword [01:03:15]:
But I'm not making an argument that we need to believe in some kind of universal system of reward and punishment in order to be good to each other. I'm not saying that. But it is an interesting question of if there is no universal system of reward and punishment, what does create our motivation to be good to each other in this life? Or how do we even. To make the question broader, how do we make meaning in our life or out of our life?

James Cano [01:03:52]:
Yeah. There was a couple of things kind of I had been playing with or ideas, if you can think of that there's no right or wrong or good or bad, but only consequences.

Vision Battlesword [01:04:03]:
Yeah.

James Cano [01:04:04]:
To your actions without trying to label it. But the way you treat somebody, it's going to have a consequence come back to you and there's the thought of karma.

Vision Battlesword [01:04:15]:
Yep.

James Cano [01:04:16]:
Right. I just want to. I just want to add to people's lives and enrich my own, enrich others, really. And do things out of just. Without really seeking anything in return, out of just kindness, acts of kindness, without actually wanting anything back. I also like the concept of the eternal now. So if somebody were to believe in forever, believe in heaven, believe in eternity, whatever that might be. Eternity goes on forever in all directions.

James Cano [01:04:51]:
So no matter where you put your finger, that's the center. That would mean that right here and now is eternity being experienced in this form, this human form, that you don't have to die to go to heaven or hell. It is what you make it right now. I know I have met people who are living in hell here, tortured. I've also met people who are living the most beautiful, wonderful lives, which is kind of like heaven here now. And so then that's where that transition that we were talking about takes place. That here we are in eternity as we speak. You don't have to die to get anywhere.

James Cano [01:05:40]:
You're here. And so then when this body tires out, becomes diseased, gets old, heaven forbid you have an accident and it ends earlier than it maybe could have. It just transitions. And then like we are energy, we have a light inside of us, this thing that brightens our face and that allows us this consciousness that we have that it doesn't turn into nothing, it just transitions into something else. What? I don't quite know.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:18]:
You knew that was going to be my next question. Well, do you believe in reincarnation?

James Cano [01:06:23]:
Not necessarily. It could be true.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:26]:
So when you say karma, you imagine that's like kind of a system of reciprocity. That sure doesn't require an afterlife or a next life. It can just all be right here and now.

James Cano [01:06:36]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:36]:
Yeah. Makes sense to me.

James Cano [01:06:38]:
Yeah. You run around being a. Being a certain way to people and all of this, and you think you could just run through life just thinking about yourself, and then all of a sudden something happens to you. You're like. Or the opposite, you know, run around just doing kind. Opening doors, smiling at people, helping people out. And then one day you find yourself on the ground, and then you look up and there's a hand reaching out to help you bring back up. It's kind of the karma that I'm thinking of.

Vision Battlesword [01:07:11]:
I'm glad we're back on the main path and we got here in a perfectly organic way, which is beautiful, which is talking about transition. And you were just talking about your model or belief system about death is that it is a transition into our. We have an energy. We have a light, as you called it, that animates, if you will, our physical form while we're in this part of the process that we call life. And then there's a transition where that light goes somewhere else. And we don't know where. Where it goes or what exactly it does, but it continues in some form. Because energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Vision Battlesword [01:07:54]:
It only changes forms.

James Cano [01:07:55]:
Exactly.

Vision Battlesword [01:07:56]:
But at the very beginning of our conversation, this is something I wanted to ask about. And I'm glad we kind of came full circle back to here. At the very beginning of our conversation, when I asked you to define transition, you said, well, first there's whatever came before birth. Then we have a transition into this life, and then we can have another transition which is returning in some form back to wherever it is we came, let's say, where do we come from? It's an equally interesting question to me to ask what comes after death as it is. Well, what comes before birth? What does that mean?

James Cano [01:08:35]:
Yeah, I think these have been thought about and written about for a millennia.

Vision Battlesword [01:08:41]:
Or quite longer, maybe quite longer, yeah.

James Cano [01:08:44]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:08:44]:
But what's your answer?

James Cano [01:08:46]:
So if we were never born, we will never die. We're eternal beings. Kind of like the diffusion that happens in the center of the sun, and it releases photons and light, radiation and energy. And then it lands upon the leaf right there that you see outside your window, and it gets turned into and photosynthesized into energy for the tree to grow. And then that tree one day would take a branch and make a fire in your backyard and light it, and it again will heat us and brighten, lighten our faces. And we'll sit around a campfire and have another sacred conversation. It's just a circle transition.

Vision Battlesword [01:09:38]:
See, I knew you would have a beautiful and poetic answer to the question as good as any philosopher. What is the meaning of life? We're going around and around this circle. We, you know, we come through birth into this, we go through death, into the next. Why this? Why here? Why now?

James Cano [01:10:01]:
I think the. The universe, the creator God is expressing itself through us. We are an expression of God. I find it that we need to open ourselves up. And the gifts that each one of us are born with, all the talents that we have to allow that to flow through us, just to be a conduit for that. I think, for me, I find when I get into a place where I don't allow my creative spirit to flow or allow the things that I'm good at or my gifts and talents to flow, and I hold them back and I find myself jammed up, man. I'm kind of out of sync. I think that expression may not be the meaning of life, but that's part of it.

James Cano [01:10:53]:
And I believe really one of the essence, one of the most important components is connection. Having connection. I mean, we can't just be out there as an island, just be on our own. I think that's really a sad existence. There are times to be solitary, to be on your own. There is that time. And I. I think there can be the opposite.

James Cano [01:11:19]:
When you never allow yourself time to be by yourself and to be alone with your thoughts and always be around people. And you can never really know who you are or know yourself because you never took time to sit with yourself and understand and ask those questions and dive deep. There's this. It's like this pendulum that can swing either way. And maybe right there in the center, towards the center, where we have times of solitude, where we have times on our own, and then we have other times when we have connection and we're around people, we're around that one person that just. You can just be yourself, be authentic, around. Those are some of the things that I've. I have found in my life.

James Cano [01:12:02]:
That's what resonates with me, is to allow those things that I'm gifted with, just allow that to flow through me and then to have really meaningful connections.

Vision Battlesword [01:12:14]:
What's the most important thing that you learned going through the transition process with your father that reflects for you on the transition you would like to have for yourself?

James Cano [01:12:29]:
To allow myself to be vulnerable, open myself up, and it's okay if I don't. If you don't have everything figured out, if you got questions, just be vulnerable, just open yourself up and just allow somebody to see you. That's some of the things that I've learned watching somebody at the end of their life, just open yourself up, just be vulnerable, Just allow somebody to come in and connect with you and that you don't have to be strong. You can let that facade, let those. That ego, let it, let it go and surrender, and hopefully there'll be somebody in your life there at the end who may show up, might be unexpected, may not be the person you thought. They may feel called to come and check on you or take care of you. Allow them, allow them to do that. Don't push them away.

James Cano [01:13:33]:
Allow them, allow that. Those are the. That's God and that's love expressing itself through that person, allow them, allow that energy to flow. Just let it be, Receive it, receive it.

Vision Battlesword [01:14:00]:
Is there anything else that's important to you about this whole topic of transitions, death? Anything we've been talking about that I don't know that you want to make sure gets said while we're still here in this container?

James Cano [01:14:14]:
I think so much has come out and we've touched on just about everything that has really resonated and been relevant for me. And I think here at the end when we're summing it up, take those best parts of Ceremony, of holding space for somebody, seeing them, allowing yourself to be seen. Let your gifts flow through you. Allow that expression to come out and then have that connection, have that heart to heart connection.

Vision Battlesword [01:14:49]:
I'm glad you brought it back to Ceremony. I almost lost that thread, but that feels like for me actually the most important piece of this whole conversation, at least as far as like, what can we do? What can we take back into our own lives to have a huge positive impact? Maybe I wonder, do you think that this is a good time when we're having this psychedelic renaissance and also when I think there's a lot of open mindedness, just about questioning traditions, the status quo, trying new things, especially in the realm of being compassionate we with people and in the dying process. Do you think that there's a good opportunity right now to kind of start a movement around somehow integrating hospice and Ceremony or creating a kind of a support group, support system for people to come together to start to explore and experience and experiment? Certainly with this idea? Yeah, I think it's really powerful. I think, I think it could reach and resonate with a lot of people. Personally?

James Cano [01:16:05]:
No, I, I think so. And I, I think there are some things being, you know, that are, have started around and I believe it's called a death doula.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:15]:
Yes.

James Cano [01:16:16]:
Right.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:16]:
Huh.

James Cano [01:16:17]:
And I believe there is a school or an organization in Jamaica where psilocybin is legal.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:24]:
Yes.

James Cano [01:16:25]:
Diaspora Spiritual School may not be exactly it, but there are organizations out there who blend this medicine work and like a hospice type of work, having that cooperation between the two and bring it together. And I think it can be a very healing, very healing process for not only the person who's transitioning, but the loved ones around them, surrounding them. But yeah, but here locally I think that would be wonderful and great to have a, an organization or a point of contact to do that. And it has been something that I've thought about myself maybe having like you feel called towards certain things, kind of feel a pool in this area.

Vision Battlesword [01:17:15]:
Yeah, yeah. There's like a few different threads that we, you know, kind of played with through. Through this conversation that there's just something that feels intuitively right or true for me about a possibility of how to weave them together, which is, you know, end of life care, hospice, like, you know, from a traditional thought process perspective, this idea of the celebration of life, the idea of creating a sacred container for. For dying. For the dying process, a ceremonial experience of it, or at least using tools and techniques of ceremony, what we would call like medicine work in that process. And then, you know, we didn't actually talk about it explicitly, but the whole idea of choice, right to die, choice of manner and method and setting of death, like, weaving those four threads together somehow there's something that feels really just, I don't know, like a real breakthrough, like a new paradigm that could emerge around how we approach and support each other through and in death altogether. Like just to create a. Just create a completely different experience that's high sovereignty, high agency, high dignity, high comfort.

Vision Battlesword [01:18:44]:
Something that can feel joyful, you know, even though pain and other kinds of challenges may be unavoidable, but we can still have a good experience even so. Yeah. Wow. What a cool conversation.

James Cano [01:19:01]:
Very.

Vision Battlesword [01:19:02]:
Thank you so much for this, James. This was. I feel like I moved. I moved a few pieces. Energy and emotion that have been waiting to shift, and you helped me do that. Thanks a lot.

James Cano [01:19:17]:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. And I feel I had a few pieces move as well, and I think the timing was right. Thank you. Thank you again. I'm really grateful for you vision.

Vision Battlesword [01:19:28]:
Grateful for you too.