Vision Battlesword [00:00:00]:
So are you ready to talk about.

Anya Bell [00:00:01]:
To talk about dreams? I'm so happy. Yeah. I'm so happy you gave the list. And I'm like, that's it. I got so many stories that I don't even know where to start or which one to give you.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:13]:
Oh, great. I can't wait to get into this. I've got.

Anya Bell [00:00:15]:
So, yeah, you told me yesterday. And I'm like, this is awesome because we're talking about this. Like, we're literally talking about the same thing, but you're more of a, like, scientific and mathematical point of view of it. And. And I'm a little bit on the other side, but, like, the idea is the same.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:30]:
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Well, then, let's begin with who are you, Anya Bell?

Anya Bell [00:00:42]:
Space cadet. That's the perfect description for this topic. Just, you know, riding the waves of all kinds of spaces and timelines and you know it, you name it.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:55]:
I think that's a great moniker and metaphor because when you say space cadet, I'm imagining an eager young recruit into some space force or federation or something. It's like, oh, I'm going off to space, I'm on a journey. I've got so much to learn and all kinds of opportunities for growth. But I think you mean it in a lot of different ways, right? I imagine outer space, for sure. I know that you and I have both been regular intrepid travelers of the psychedelic space, and the dream space is mostly what we're going to talk about today. What other spaces are you attracting?

Anya Bell [00:01:36]:
I mean, you nailed it. It's multi dimensional spaces, right? It's not just this physical, you know, waking hours kind of spaces, but also, even without psychedelics, how many different spaces are you usually navigating and traveling through? Because daydreaming is a dreaming, right? How is it different from nighttime dreaming? In my opinion, not that much different. You're just a little bit more aware of it. If you are aware of it. Right. Actually, remember someone? I was the one also recommending this book. It's called Reality Transurfing by Vadim Zeland. He actually just released the Reality of Self, which is in like a second more modern and fitting to our timeline book than the old one.

Anya Bell [00:02:24]:
But the old one is really good at describing the different timelines and everything. And he's always asking, he's like, you will become a more aware being if you keep asking yourself, am I sleeping or am I awake? Am I sleep or am I dreaming or am I awake? So if you do this kind of exercise throughout the daytime, then it will be easier for you to kind of like, realize that you're sleeping at night and then navigate and control your dreams at the dream state at night. So, you know, throughout all these years of me playing this game, I'm like, wait a minute. But what is actually a difference between daydreaming and then dreaming at night? I mean, yes, at night it literally looks like chunk of information that you've been exposed to throughout the day. Some drama involved, emotional attachments, whatever. And then it's a surrealism of some crazy shapes, like your legs are sticks and you cannot run, or you trying to scream and you're mute. You know, that kind of stuff, or stuff is meant like kind of melty or people's faces don't look right. So in a way.

Anya Bell [00:03:31]:
And even like psychedelic spaces, right there are like dream spaces. So I don't see much difference between any of them at this point, at least in my life. How do you. How do you translate. How do you translate dreams? How do you differentiate what's the dream and what's not?

Vision Battlesword [00:03:48]:
Oh, I don't know anymore. That's why I wanted to have this conversation, just like you. Well, I'm so glad you brought up reality transurfing, because this is something I've wanted to talk to you about, or anyone but you in particular, because you. You've brought it up a few different times since I've known you. And in, of course, the Sacred Light community, you. You put it out there as a resource for people to look into. So I want to talk about that. There's a few other things, like just kind of to set the stage, a few other pieces I want to put on the table, puzzle pieces.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:19]:
Are you familiar with the movie Waking Life?

Anya Bell [00:04:22]:
I should have watched it before we did this.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:24]:
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I wish I'd thought to recommend it to you. If you haven't seen it, it's. Well, it's one of my favorite movies. If not maybe my favorite movie of all time. I'm kind of a film buff, I guess you would say. Right. I really like.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:36]:
I really like movies, but I'm into things that are more. I'd say, you know, kind of what you might call independent film or art house film or experimental stuff, even just stuff that's off the beaten track, like not necessarily your mainstream Hollywood stuff.

Anya Bell [00:04:50]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:51]:
So I want to talk about Waking Life. I'll. I'll give you, and, you know, maybe anyone else that isn't familiar with it, a brief description to kind of set the stage. For the, those themes, then of course, I, I believe you're familiar with the movie the Matrix.

Anya Bell [00:05:05]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:05:05]:
I feel like that's an important metaphor or framework for this whole conversation about dreams and reality. And how do we tell the difference between the two and how does one affect, influence, or maybe even create the other or how do they co create each other? So I want to put that piece on the table. Of course, I had my mini insight or epiphany that I shared with you in a voice message about, you know, having a recurring or repetitive dream and then after waking up from that, you know, starting to think about what does that mean? Or like, what, what are we really doing with dreams? Or what, what, what role does a dream or dreaming fill in our psychology as a part of our human system? You know, because it's such a, such a mystery, I mean, at least in, let's say, Western culture, like, what are dreams? Why do we have them? What are, you know, are they just mental noise and static or replaying events of the day? Are they helping us to process information or our emotions? Do, do they serve some like actual psychological function kind of in the same way that the body's natural repair process or healing process or, you know, growth process or whatever kind of takes place? Is this like a sort of a similar feature of the human organism and how we rejuvenate ourselves? Like, there's so many questions about what dreams are and what role they fill. But I, I had this idea of, you know, maybe something that links in very much with reality, transurfing. I don't know, but this idea that we may be virtualizing different reality trees or modeling out future states or something like that with our dreams. So I want to get into that as well. Is there anything else that's on your mind with dreams?

Anya Bell [00:07:02]:
I'm sure it will pop up when the word or something will trigger what needs to come out. So I'm trusting the process that whatever needs to be said and will come will come when we're going to be talking about it.

Vision Battlesword [00:07:16]:
So with reality transurfing, what you just said, that part about continuously checking in with yourself to try to detect whether you're dreaming asleep, or let's just say dreaming awake, that reminds me of lucid dreaming techniques that I've read and heard about that. That's a very common technique that people can use to train themselves to become lucid dreamers. Is reality transurfing about lucid dreaming or. How would you summarize it?

Anya Bell [00:07:48]:
You nailed it. Because his whole point is to make sure that you're awake and present. And conscious about every given moment as often as you can. Right. And then you can navigate it. And you can actually transverse different realities. And pick the timeline that is more suitable for you and fits you better. It's like manifesting, but controlled manifestation.

Anya Bell [00:08:17]:
So, yeah, you're right there. It's on point. So is it about dreams in particular? No, but can we translate reality and, like, people making plants and building their lives around different ideas? How is it different from dreaming?

Vision Battlesword [00:08:31]:
I see. Okay. So reality transurfing, which, full disclosure, I've not read it and not even really read a lot about it. I've read a few different things, you know, little kind of summaries or overviews. But it's not about dreaming specifically. But it uses dreaming as a metaphor or a framework for how we model future realities. So that we can kind of, like, choose the timeline that we want to be on. And experience the kind of world that we would like to manifest or that we would like to inhabit.

Anya Bell [00:09:06]:
Yeah, he's just pretty much explaining how everything works from, like, quantum physics perspective. But also how you can become more aware and more conscious of your choices. Because if you're running all day on subconscious programming and just automatic behaviors. For example, you know how a lot of people, they. They go from work to home and then they black out there. They don't even know how they got there because it's just automatically. Right. So same here.

Anya Bell [00:09:34]:
He's really trying to bring out. The point is, like, if you're not awake, if you're not aware of your choices, of your actions. Then you're in a dream state. So you're, like, just blindly following, you know, whatever the habits and everything else that you're just automatically doing. Instead of consciously navigating the space and putting yourself in situations and places and mindsets and everything else.

Vision Battlesword [00:10:01]:
That's a really interesting phenomenon now that you pointed out. That idea of kind of, like, driving home on autopilot or doing anything. Where you realize you've kind of, like, lost time. Like, wait, what just happened for the last 30 minutes? Where was I? It's really interesting because it's so, like, dream. I mean, it.

Anya Bell [00:10:22]:
Right?

Vision Battlesword [00:10:22]:
It is exactly.

Anya Bell [00:10:24]:
Like, what's the difference? Daytime, night, dream. Right?

Vision Battlesword [00:10:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's such a fascinating idea to think that you could actually literally fall asleep and dream. While your body is up and moving around doing things on your behalf. It really raises a lot of existential questions of, like.

Anya Bell [00:10:46]:
Exactly. Exactly. That's the point. Right? Because. And then he brought, brings up another big subject, subject of energetic pendulums. Right. And then politicking is a perfect example. Like you have two parties guessing, you know, each themselves up and then like trying to make sure that you get the attention or they're, they're in control of your attention and they're literally like your dream, dream walking and they're controlling your behaviors, but you're being in a la la land and not fully conscious and present.

Vision Battlesword [00:11:19]:
Yeah. You know, this theme has come up quite a few times in the last several sacred conversations that I've done. Well, I keep bringing it up, of course. Yeah, because it's just I, when I'm having conversations with different people on different topics. But this, this particular theme keeps coming back to me of like, who am I? What is, what is I? What is that? That self referential identity, that thing that we, that whatever this thing is that's speaking to you now that can, that is the thing that can go away even while, you know, my body and something is still having life and an experience and you know, even taking action and doing stuff. It's so interesting because it points in the direction that there must be more than one identity inhabiting this physical vessel. And it makes me think of other models of psychology, you know, like the Jungian map of the mind, you know, where there's all these different parts and only some of them are conscious, you know, that is to say, above the line of what we, what we call quote unquote, conscious awareness. And then we talk about like internal family systems and parts work.

Vision Battlesword [00:12:43]:
And anyone that's experienced that knows that you can have a conversation with some other part of yourself that seems to in some way be a separate identity. And yet it's all in your mind. It's like, so who, so who drove me home? That's what I want to know. Like who drove me home while I was dreaming and where exactly was I when that happened? What do you think?

Anya Bell [00:13:15]:
I mean, that's a great question. Right? Because who's talking, first of all, And I like playing that game who's talking? Because if people are aware of the internal dialogue, then they will know that, you know, it still might be the same voice. It's your voice, but intonation might be different. Right. The tone and how they deliver the message might be different. So I always like to play that game who's talking? And I don't know who's talking. That's, that's the question that I'm still yet to discover. Right.

Anya Bell [00:13:50]:
And why we're doing things the way we do and how subconscious behaviors are driving those kind of responses and whatnot. And I always was a big fan of idea that we're like blind little kittens here. And hopefully there is, you know, either your guardian angel or whatever you want to call it. Some. Some being out there is looking out for you. Because a lot of times we're literally sleepwalking and it's dangerous a lot of times.

Vision Battlesword [00:14:18]:
How do you know you. You brought up. You kind of tiptoed around this question earlier, but how do you know that what we're doing now isn't a dream and whatever we're doing when we, quote, unquote, go to sleep isn't reality?

Anya Bell [00:14:35]:
Oh, I.

Vision Battlesword [00:14:36]:
How do we know that?

Anya Bell [00:14:38]:
I blurred that line. I don't even see. I don't even differentiate them anymore. You know, like, this is a dream at night and this is a dream at daytime. I just translate them as the same. Because I guess it's. How do I explain it? I guess it's the way of really understanding your. Your yourself and understanding the messages that you're getting and catching those messages.

Anya Bell [00:15:05]:
Because, like, for example, if you know, you're normally in a neutral state and you just have whatever little stories on the background, but if there is a story that is very different from your normal, that's when you're like, oh, what is going on? What is this? And who's talking? Right. And where we're going with it. But I did. I started blurring the lines between, like, what's the difference between me receiving a message while I'm meditating or while I'm crocheting or while I'm dreaming or while I'm on psychedelics? Like, what's the difference between any of those? I don't see. I don't see the difference. It's the same, in my opinion, at least my perception of it.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:42]:
So you consider the experiences that you have while you're asleep, so to speak, as being just another part of your life?

Anya Bell [00:15:53]:
Yes, precisely.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:55]:
These are just. It's just another dimension of reality. Because in the same way as a plant medicine, experience is just a different.

Anya Bell [00:16:03]:
Exactly. Because, for example, a lot of dreams, if especially those people who do remember their dreams, you can pinpoint that you might be, you know, solving a lot of relationship issues in your dream states. You know, you might be going back and educating yourself on something in the school environment or learning environments. It's different kinds of themes with different dreams. So. And a lot of them are so intertwined. Was what happened during the day or Years leading up to that dream. It's all in there, right? And especially like, maybe because from what I saw on iboga, now I have a little bit better understanding.

Anya Bell [00:16:45]:
Like it's all there, right? All of it. All information you ever been exposed to. So now your mind is either playing games. Well, let's start there that I think our mind is a trickster, right? So solely relying on just brain and logic is bad news for me at least. So knowing that the mind can make shit up and break shit up, right? And just be very creative into explaining, elaborating and whatever, you know, the story, little story can tell you, you just have to be aware, like, okay, I'm going into creative mode here with, you know, this trying to find the reasoning for someone's behavior or my reaction or whatever, you name it.

Vision Battlesword [00:17:33]:
What I think I heard you say a moment ago is that in a Boga experience you came to the realization that like all of the experience we've ever had, all of the information we've ever taken in through our senses is like perfectly recorded in high fidelity somewhere in our mind or somewhere in our person. It's all there, it's all accessible. We just don't know how to access it. In normal awareness, typically we only get like a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction, a sliver of memory content. But it's, it's actually there and it can surface. And iboga for some reason helps it surface. Did I hear that right?

Anya Bell [00:18:13]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:18:14]:
Wow, that's wild. I've never.

Anya Bell [00:18:17]:
And thank God, honestly, thank God you only remember part of it because it would be like I remember opening my eyes and they see like the, the vortexes and they see the matrix and I'm like, this is so much like, holy shit. Thank God I'm not this aware. Like I'm not that sensitive to see this in my, you know, non psychedelic state because like it's overwhelming the amount of information that we're constantly bombarded with. It's a lot. So thank God we can black out and forget some things because, right, it.

Vision Battlesword [00:18:51]:
Makes sense, you know, like it's, it's an evolutionary feature that we have such a heavy filter on our perception and that we, we intentionally limit the sense data that we're taking in. Are, are like a reality aperture. Like if you think of it as like a pupil and dilate and contract, like our overall aperture of reality can dilate and contract and have different filters in front of it. And we normally go through life with a really, really heavy filter because there's only so much that we can really, there's only so much information that we can usefully process, I think, or integrate. And then the same thing is true kind of for our memory. You know, it's like if all of our memories were present with us at all times, like, how overwhelmed would we be? Like, what would we, how would we even function? How, what would we know how to do with all of that information? So it is a blessing that we have been constructed in this way that, yeah, the data's there, you know, your running, it's always, it's always streaming. The disk will continue to infinitely expand as long as it needs to. But yeah, if you want to go back and find any particular episode, then you're going to have to go into a particular state to be able to access that maybe dreams are one of those states.

Anya Bell [00:20:13]:
That's what I'm saying. Like I, I don't see the difference between, you know, being on the substances or not. I mean, there's definitely different. Like let's say you walk into a building and you walk in on the first floor, you know, versus penthouse. You have a different view, right? So same here. Psychedelics will give you the penthouse view when, when you're awake at daytime. That's your first floor, maybe even basement in some cases.

Vision Battlesword [00:20:40]:
So, you know, a big part of my philosophy that, that I've been interested in and have been, you know, integrating and trying to practice for many years of my life has to do with Toltec spirituality. I was first introduced to that through the writings of Carlos Castaneda. I've also spent a lot of time with the writings of Don Miguel Ruiz and a friend of mine who lives here in Austin who's a, you know, spiritual master and, and has deep, deep wisdom that comes from the Toltec tradition as well. And one of the core principles of the whole Toltec philosophy is everything that we're doing is an aspect of dreaming, that there is actually no meaningful distinction between the kind of reality that we experience when we're asleep and the kind of reality that we experience when we're awake and the kind of reality that we are sort of co creating together by weaving our personal dreams together into a collective dream, which is called the dream of the world. In other words, in short, the Toltec philosophy, or one of the key principles of it, is that we are always dreaming and that our dreams are the engine of reality, that we are creating reality by making it up in every moment as we go along. And we have a certain amount of influence, a lot actually of influence over our personal dream and how our own life manifests. But we are also participating in the dream of the world along with all other sentient life, weaving our dreams together. So we are also.

Vision Battlesword [00:22:25]:
We're both giving and receiving to this collective dream, which is what gives rise to the consensus reality that we all kind of experience. If you look at an object and I look at an object, and we both call it a tree, and we can both describe it in more or less the same way, that's because of the overall fabric of the collective dream that kind of holds reality In a kind of objective form. So with that being said, I just wanted to kind of put that puzzle piece on the table as well, you know, and that seems to integrate well with reality, transurfing and probably other philosophies of manifestation as well. And just to see what you think about that, like, so we've kind of explored just a little bit about our own internal experience of the sleeping dream and the waking dream, so, so to speak. But what do you think about how our dreams interact with each other in this manifestation process?

Anya Bell [00:23:25]:
That's a perfect question, because that was exactly one of the scenarios that I wanted to talk about. For example, if I have bad night of sleep, I already know something's going on. Chances are there were a lot of souls transitioning. So I opened up whatever news channel to take a look. And of course, people were killed, people died. And, you know, there was civil unrest somewhere. So that's already. But that's like, lately that I've been paying attention to that.

Anya Bell [00:23:56]:
But it all started when I was still in medical sales. And I remember if I have a bed night of sleep, at least one of the patients the next day will be injured during the surgery. The surgery will not be as successful as they would hope for. And that was before I even started working with ayahuasca or any psychedelics. I just. I couldn't understand what was that all about, because I was not aware of my, you know, clairvoyance. And I was like, oh, my God, is it me who brings this energy into the field? And these poor people are then having bad surgeries. And then, like, so I'm trying to shake it off, I'm trying to meditate, trying to ground myself.

Anya Bell [00:24:35]:
And then over and over and over it happens. And then I remember one time I even brought it up, and of course, they laughed at me. And then, obviously, no one's going to cancel the surgery Because I just had a bad dream, you know, so. But I started paying attention. Like, what is Is it me who creates this or am I tapping into something that's going to happen tomorrow? And I'm just so in that field that I feel it, right? And now even like after the dream work that I had with you, I'm a global baby, right? I care about the planet. So I am tapped into the collective of, you know, our planet. And then if something is happening across the globe, even if I don't see it, I'll feel it. So it's all interconnected to the point that we cannot even explain it or comprehend it yet, but all part of one, even though in our little individual units.

Vision Battlesword [00:25:32]:
I think that's a really interesting question. It seems to come up a lot in some of the conversations that I have. The question, if I predict something, it's the question of the self fulfilling prophecy. If I predict something, am I seeing a possible future or a possible reality, or am I creating it? You know, there's several people that I know that lean heavily toward this idea that whatever it is that we predict or expect, we're calling it to us, we're calling it in. And I think there's certainly, I mean, I haven't. There's certainly an aspect of that which seems totally plausible to me. But then additionally, where does that leave room for just the possibility that people can have a sensitivity to future outcomes or even just an intelligence or you use the word clairvoyance and I think of a word which is premonition. If you have a dream and you see something in your dream and then that turns out something very like that turns out to come to pass, or you see confirmation of things that were shown to you as future events, what do you think about that? Is it a calling it in or is it a.

Vision Battlesword [00:26:56]:
Is it a looking forward and seeing what's coming and, and it. I think the answer to that question ties in a lot to the question about determinism versus free will, right? Because if we see something, if it would be true that we saw something as a future event that turned out to come to pass, where does that leave room for us to change the future? Or are we just on rails, you know, just like following a predetermined path. What do you think about all that?

Anya Bell [00:27:25]:
I think it's both partially us resonating. Was that outcome for the other person who needed to have that kind of experience? Like in my particular case, like, you know, there are people who came into surgery and they needed to learn certain lessons, like take a break, right? Like if, if you in the hospital and you having A surgery, chances are you needed to relax a little bit. So then me seeing these kind of dreams, resonating on that and amplifying that kind of energy for that particular outcome. But there are millions of outcomes, right? It's like the way I always see. It's like I am in the middle of the sun with millions of tiniest little rays that are coming out of me. And I can see the different kinds of, you know, potentials and futures and lifetimes and timelines. But which one has the strongest energetic resonance with more people? And then that's what Vadim Zeland is calling energetic pendulums, because you have more people resonating with it. So of course, the energy will be amplified in that particular field versus if it's just me and no one really cares about it, then it will fall flat.

Anya Bell [00:28:39]:
And then, of course, you know, people can change their minds because to my understanding, the willpower and freedom of choice were the major selling point to even come here incarnate in this meat suit, you know, because you can change it. There might have been certain scenarios that we chose to or we thought we wanted to play with and try before coming here. That's like one of the, you know, beliefs. But I do believe that every single one of us can change and make the shifts if we, if we focus long enough. That's why I was trying to shake it off before coming in, right? Because I'm like, I don't want to bring this energy into the field. And then bam, over and over again, bam. It's like I was reading this morning, someone on X actually mentioned that this guy was studying the. The dreams and future dreams.

Anya Bell [00:29:35]:
And after his very thorough research, he discovered that 40% of his dreams were predicting the future. 40%.

Vision Battlesword [00:29:46]:
How did he figure that out?

Anya Bell [00:29:47]:
They. He. So he would always write down the. All the details that he could remember from his dreams. And then he had other people who always. Who were also capable of doing it. And then they did it over decades. So then they would be like, okay, this was the dream with the details.

Anya Bell [00:30:05]:
And did that actually happen? Yes or no? You know, kind of like just scientific data. This is what I saw. Did it manifest? Yes or no. And he was able to conclude that 40% of the time we have prophetic dreams.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:21]:
Now, does he extrapolate that to the general population? Meaning his presumption is that that's a good. Yeah, yeah, his dreams were 40%.

Anya Bell [00:30:30]:
Because you're right, not everyone has the ability. Right? Not like, not everyone is clairvoyant to the right.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:39]:
Maybe it's a spectrum. Maybe some more and some less everyone. Some.

Anya Bell [00:30:44]:
Right, right. Perhaps it's a skill, just like playing basketball or, you know, baseball professionally. It's. It's a skill that you need to train and master.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:53]:
Okay, well, that brings me to the idea that I sent you in the voice note yesterday. This is, I mean, I think what you're saying right now is like the perfect setup for it. So what happened? For me, a certain night a few weeks back, I had the same dream, or, sorry, I had a very similar dream three times in a row. And it had to do. The dream, the content had to do with a relationship conflict that was actually not technically happening for me in my life. But it was something I was worried about. Something, something I was worried could happen in a future, future meeting with someone. And in that recurring dream, the sort of meeting played out three different ways.

Vision Battlesword [00:31:41]:
They were all not satisfactory to me. But the first one was.

Anya Bell [00:31:46]:
So you keep coming back to fix it.

Vision Battlesword [00:31:49]:
Yeah, right. So that. But it kept getting better. So like the, like the first, the first one was like super bad. It was like it wok me up. It was so bad. It was like really intense and gnarly feelings and stuff. And I was like, oh, man, that was a gross dream.

Vision Battlesword [00:32:03]:
And I went back to sleep and it happened again, but it was slightly different and slightly better. It was like, okay, this isn't a great result, but it's like not as bad as the first time. And then I went to sleep and it happened a third time. And again it improved, but not great. Not the way I would like for it to be necessarily in quote, unquote, real life. But. But it was, you know, it was still very, very similar in terms of how the whole thing played out. And then when I woke up that next morning and I was just kind of meditating on this is one of the rare times when I really remembered a lot of the content of my dreams, which I usually don't.

Vision Battlesword [00:32:44]:
I have very rich dreams, but I just, you know, for some reason I'm one of those people where it's like, oh, there's no way I'm going to forget this. And then five minutes after I wake up, it's like, what was that all about? I don't. I kind of remember a color and a feeling that' which you've helped me to realize that I would like to write down my colors at least more so I get some guidance out of it. Anywho, my idea was, wow, I wonder if what we're doing in our dreams or with our dream, time is using our brain as a matrix, as a virtual reality simulator to model out possible futures and explore the probability space of what can happen, what can happen in time for the purpose of discovering the outcome that we would like to create. And then whether we are consciously aware of it or not, whether we remember that dream and choose to take any action based on whatever are the lessons we may have learned from it. Nonetheless, under the surface, unconsciously, we are selecting reality. We are guiding ourselves through this multi dimensional roller coaster ride in such a way as to pursue or choose those scenarios that we found to be preferable or possibly just avoid the ones that we found to be, like, super unsatisfactory. So that's my idea, and I think that links up so well with what you just said about this science project of trying to track how predictive are our dreams.

Vision Battlesword [00:34:31]:
And then I think it also, of course, ties back into reality transurfing, which seems like that's what it's all about. What do you think?

Anya Bell [00:34:38]:
I would like to actually ask you. So do you think it's the exploration of the dreams or resolving the conflicts on the different dimensions?

Vision Battlesword [00:34:47]:
That's a great. Yeah, I love, I love that reframe, you know, so, so like my idea. Oh, and, and what you're saying is also not just resolving the conflict, like in terms of my own emotional processing, but like, really, really resolving it. Like, like, like the idea being what I'm hearing you saying is that in that dream, me and this person, we're actually hashing it out.

Anya Bell [00:35:13]:
You're using my words exactly. Because I'm like, are you exploring or hashing it out? I'm like, no, let me change it to resolve the conflict. Yeah, yeah, you're doing that.

Vision Battlesword [00:35:20]:
That's fascinating. Yeah. It didn't occur to me that that could be the case, but now that you've brought it to my attention, I'm very curious about whether that could be the case, whether we are actually meeting up in the dream space. And I think, I think I have had an experience a long time ago that I was very, very convinced that someone else and me had like a dream, like a shared dream together. And I never, I never confirmed it with that person or not, but I was convinced, like, me and this person, we definitely had the same dream. We like, met each other there and hadn't had a shared experience. Have you ever had that experience?

Anya Bell [00:36:03]:
Oh, my God. How many?

Vision Battlesword [00:36:05]:
I don't know.

Anya Bell [00:36:07]:
I feel like I'm resolving half of my sh. And in my dream state because have.

Vision Battlesword [00:36:11]:
You confirmed it with other people, though. Have you said, like, hey, I think.

Anya Bell [00:36:14]:
I am very tempted. I am very tempted because there's.

Vision Battlesword [00:36:18]:
What's holding you back?

Anya Bell [00:36:21]:
How will. What's holding me back? It has to be the perfect timing for that person to be open to, even to that. Because I can freak people out, right? Because. Because if you really think about it, like, with the psychedelics, in particular with Ayahuasca, you're resolving a lot of conflicts in a different. And, you know, in different spaces and dimensions. So how is it different from resolving it and hashing it out while you're dreaming and sleeping? Same thing, in my opinion. Right. So the one big example of that whole, you know, conflict resolution is this one recurring dream that I keep getting with my mom.

Anya Bell [00:37:01]:
So she left when I was 16, and for about a decade, I keep having a dream that she's walking down the street and she's walking towards me, and she never came. She always stayed in Paris. And then the next time I saw her was, like, 10 years later, she was already on that bed with cancer and dying. So she finally, you know, transitions. She crosses over. And then about six years later, I am drawn to take Reiki class. And then the lady who's tuning me into it, she's like, there's someone here. And then she literally.

Anya Bell [00:37:36]:
And this lady has. She has no idea about what happened to my mom. The trauma, the drama with my mom, none of that. Right? So this lady sits there and she describes the picture to the T from the dream that I had reoccurring dream over a decade, Right? She's, like, describing it, and I'm like, first of all, I was shocked that my mom finally showed up, but then it took me about another two years to puzzle those pieces together. I'm like, wait a minute, would she. Because I was just too overwhel. Emotions and feelings. I didn't really, like, put two and two together, but I'm like, wait a minute.

Anya Bell [00:38:14]:
This lady actually saw the dream that I had, and she described it like. Like, wow. So what was that all about? Was it me, you know, trying to resolve this stuff with my mom, or was it the prediction that was manifesting? I mean, I still have questions about that situation, but I was shocked how a stranger can be, like, on point.

Vision Battlesword [00:38:40]:
Yeah. So in these dreams that you described, where you may be hashing something out with someone and you think that they really are participating that, like, this is a. This is a thing that's really happening. The two of you are meeting in the dream space in some Way consciously, psychically, energetically, whatever that looks like. But you haven't necessarily reached out to some of those people to like, confirm, like, hey, did you have a similar experience to me last night? Or something like that? Why do you think that would freak people out?

Anya Bell [00:39:14]:
Well, number one one of them, I don't want to reopen that gate. This is the acts of, you know, from 20 years ago. That's still ongoing saga that I know that once I start asking those questions, that gives him another hope, and there is no closure for that person, no matter how many times I tried. So I don't even want to go there. And then the other time, I didn't want to reach out and say anything because he caught me. It's like, I know I wasn't supposed to be there, like, on the different dimensions, and he caught me. So my friend, she's like, oh, so you were doing like a spying on him? I'm like, 100%. And she's like, and he caught you? I'm like, I know, he busted me.

Anya Bell [00:39:58]:
So it was funny. And I'm like. Because that was me going there. And then the other night I had a dream with him again, and that was him coming to me. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, we need to close this. Like, here. You gotta go, like, go live your life. So it was very.

Anya Bell [00:40:13]:
It was very interesting. Yeah. That's why I cannot bring it up, because I'm like, this is just not. If it's. It's never. You know what's funny? It's never was just like friends or family. It's always with exes. In.

Anya Bell [00:40:24]:
In particular, it's always with, you know, the drama with the X's.

Vision Battlesword [00:40:29]:
Well, this brings me to the other meaning of the word dreaming from the Toltec tradition, or at the very least, the Carlos Castaneda tradition. I don't know that I've ever seen this in, like, the. Certainly not in the Don Miguel Ruiz material. And I'm not familiar enough with, like, Lujan Matus to know whether the word dreaming is ever used in this way. But certainly in Castaneda, it's like all over the place. And the word dreaming in Castaneda means actually very specifically, out of body travel. So when they say dreaming in this. In this, you know, this body of work, it's referring to sending your energetic double through space and time to somewhere else.

Vision Battlesword [00:41:22]:
And it begins through the normal sleeping dreams, meaning you train yourself through something that sounds very much like lucid dreaming techniques to become, first of all, aware that you're sleeping and dreaming and then within the dream to gain control of it. And then through that process to learn how to use the dream itself as a portal to travel and manifest somewhere else. And then eventually to be able to do that while waking, to just be able to essentially project your consciousness and beyond that, in this Castaneda work, dreaming becomes not just like directing an invisible immaterial locus of awareness like this. You know how we come to think of the so called astral projection that people do or people claim to be able to do while asleep, but you can actually project a hologram of yourself that is indistinguishable from, to, to the, to the, from the perspective of an outside observer from you, your physical body. And there's only like a few things that, that so called energy double can't do. It can, it can interact with the world, it can touch things, it can move things around. You're like a, a fully solid ghost. But then there's like, there's like certain weird things that it can't do.

Vision Battlesword [00:42:56]:
Like it can't eat for some reason I think because it's like entirely hollow. It's like just, it's like just a, well, it's like a hologram, it's like a summary hologram. So yeah, what do you think about like when you're talking about this idea of voyeurism through dreaming that makes me think of dreaming, which in Carlos Castaneta work that word would be in italics. So when I say dreaming, imagine it's in italics and it means this idea of projecting yourself elsewhere. What do you think about that? Is that possible?

Anya Bell [00:43:31]:
Yes, it's 100 possible.

Vision Battlesword [00:43:33]:
It's just, can you do it? Can you control it? Can you do it at will?

Anya Bell [00:43:36]:
I still, still, still practice and still, still doing my best because it's not, it's not easy, you know, just like, just like in a wake state, once the emotions are, and feelings are taking over, forget it.

Vision Battlesword [00:43:48]:
Right.

Anya Bell [00:43:48]:
Like we're, we're then turning into that, you know, run running on the programs that been installed for, for decades. It's in, I haven't mastered it yet. I would love to just go to places, you know, in the snap of the finger, but I'm not there yet. And that's what makes it even more fun. And I was actually going to ask you, how do you. So you don't have any techniques to remember the dreams when you wake up?

Vision Battlesword [00:44:19]:
I think it'd be better to say that I am lazy and have not chosen to put any Effort into it.

Anya Bell [00:44:28]:
But, you know, you know the methods.

Vision Battlesword [00:44:30]:
I. Yeah, I think so. I mean, certainly I know the standard ones. When I was in my early 20s, actually, because of watching the movie Waking Life, which I sense that we may be just about to talk about. But from. Yeah, from seeing that movie, I became intensely interested in lucid dreaming. And I got some books on how to do it. And I started trying, you know, to teach myself, to train myself to become a lucid dreamer.

Vision Battlesword [00:44:59]:
And I just. Gosh, I. I don't know what it is. I think that there's something about my sleep time that I just find to be so sacred and important to me as. As just a. Just a pure form of rest that all of these different things, you know, these different kind of before sleep techniques or things that the books would say to do, you know, set an alarm in the middle of the night to wake you out of sleep and then go back to sleep in a particular way, you know, after having been woken out of it and all this different stuff. I started trying to practice that for a few months. And I just.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:40]:
It's always been something on my bucket list of things that I think I will at some point exert the effort to practice and learn how to do. But I just. I just never have. I tried keeping a dream journal for a little while, but it just. I don't know, it all seemed to just be taking the fun out of things. And when I. When I go back and look at some of those old. I have actually recently looked back on some of my old dream journals from years ago and I read them and are just.

Vision Battlesword [00:46:06]:
They're just so weird. And it just looks. It just looks like me kind of processing stuff that was happening for me in my life at the time, which I guess is the sort of traditional Western idea of what dreams are all about. What about you? Have you tried to learn how to dream differently?

Anya Bell [00:46:26]:
It's not even the dream different. I was asking to remember the dreams because you did. You did. You did mention how I'm gonna remember it. So you're already there. You at least. At least you're aware that you're dreaming. And I'm gonna remember it.

Anya Bell [00:46:39]:
What I do, if I remember that I'm dreaming, then I will repeat the dream in my mind at least once or couple times. It will stick a little better. And then the moment I wake up, instead of rolling around, because the moment you shift your position, that's gone. That's will disappear. So if you can lay still and remember the dream and then write it down immediately, either on your phone or with your hand. Like a dream journal by your bedside, whatever the case might be. Like, I always have my dream notes on my phone. You know, my phone is in the airplane mode, and then the little notepad is open for me to start typing the dream.

Anya Bell [00:47:18]:
So that's. That's how.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:19]:
You know what would. You know, what would probably work for me? This is great advice. Thank you. You know what would probably work for me in thinking about it would be to make a voice note or that.

Anya Bell [00:47:29]:
Yeah. For some people. Yeah. Like, hey, Siri. You know, yell at her and.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:32]:
Yeah. Instead of trying to. Because. Because that was the thing with the dream journal that always. It's. It just felt very disruptive, you know, having to get the pen and get the book and turn the light on and all this stuff. And then to your point about changing positions, like, I never heard that before. But it makes so much sense now.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:48]:
Going through the. All of the physical. Just moving around physically in getting to the point where I could actually start to write something down. It's going to fade real quick right then. But if I could stay still and just shoot a quick dictation into a device, then I bet I could remember them a lot more.

Anya Bell [00:48:05]:
Yeah, that's. That's the trick that I've been using. And it's. It worked out really nicely. Or like, or even, you know, sometimes was my plan journeys. I'm like, oh, my God, I gotta remember it. And she always reminds me, she's like, you saw it once, you'll be able to tap into it again. Relax.

Anya Bell [00:48:22]:
And I'm like, okay, cool. So there is no pressure. Like, okay, I gotta keep up with everything that's coming and I gotta remember what I saw. And she's like, anya, relax. Like, you. You saw it once. When time is right, it will come back around again. I'm like, okay, okay.

Anya Bell [00:48:36]:
But with dreams, I love, you know, writing them because I'm really. And I like, I cannot wait for technology to get to the point where it can read my handwriting better than I do because it's terrible. And hopefully, you know, I can download everything. All my journals, all my dream journals, all my little notes and like, hey, can you summarize what is going on here? And like, it spits back out this little report like this, this and that, and da, da, da. Like, oh, I would love for technology to get.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:08]:
Yeah.

Anya Bell [00:49:09]:
So as of right now, I'm collecting the information.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:12]:
Well, okay. I was. Yeah, maybe that answers my question I was about to ask. But I was Curious. What value you get from remembering your dreams or recording your dreams. What do. What do you do with that information or how does that help you?

Anya Bell [00:49:26]:
A lot of times it. It actually is like a cherry on the top to whatever, you know, situation is or circumstances or it's like that confirmation. Because I don't like getting ideas and confirmations from other people. And relying on yourself can be tricky. Right. So the more data I have to actually like, oh, look, you're. You're right here, or you made a mistake here. So it's like teaching me to trust myself more.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:55]:
Interesting. Do you use them to make predictions or confirm predictions like what we were talking about before?

Anya Bell [00:50:02]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:03]:
And what. What would you say your success rate is?

Anya Bell [00:50:05]:
The success rate? I wish I was wrong more.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:10]:
Yeah. Like a lot of. A lot of things you dream about turn out to.

Anya Bell [00:50:14]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:14]:
Seem to come true.

Anya Bell [00:50:15]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:16]:
Wow.

Anya Bell [00:50:17]:
And it's. I. You know how they say, like, even the God is afraid of people who, like, can see the future? Because it. It. You have to understand then if anybody else is involved in that situation and then you bring it to them, to their attention, they might hate it. They might really do not like what you have to say because you're changing the little plan that they have and now you're bringing to their awareness there is going to be a shift. And a lot of people do not like that. So that stirs up the whole, you know, complexity of the relationship.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:54]:
I've had this curse, too. It's like the Cassandra curse. Cassandra, is that that figure from Greek mythology who is given the gift of foresight, but the curse also that no one will believe her? And, yeah, I don't know where some of my foresight comes from. I don't necessarily associate it with my dreams. But then again, I don't remember 95% of my dreams too, so. But yeah, it's. It's an interesting little trap. And it brings me back to quantum physics.

Vision Battlesword [00:51:33]:
Like what we were talking about with reality transurfing, the role of the observer and the role of, you know, influence. Like, if I tell you what's going to happen or what I think is going to happen, does that change. Does that literally change reality just in having communicated that information? Because now in the light of that information, you're going to make different choices. It reminds me of, you know, a lot of different movies about time travel, especially where it's like, no matter what you do, you can't change the outcome because in whatever it is that you did to try to influence it set off A different chain of reactions which boomerangs back around and ends up with the same result anyway.

Anya Bell [00:52:17]:
You just kind of take a little detour, right?

Vision Battlesword [00:52:21]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it's like it's, it's, it's the universe is, is like playing a joke on, you know, you know, just. It's almost like a comedy of figuring out all different ways that the same exact thing can happen and you're just like out of luck, you know. But it also reminds me of what you said that like people don't like prophets get, you know, burned at the stage.

Anya Bell [00:52:44]:
Right, right, exactly.

Vision Battlesword [00:52:46]:
People don't like prophecy. It's really interesting.

Anya Bell [00:52:48]:
Yeah, it's. If it, especially if it doesn't serve them, they hate it.

Vision Battlesword [00:52:52]:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Is there anything that you would like to. Is there a prophecy that you would like to make right now? Something you think is going to happen?

Anya Bell [00:53:00]:
No, I am remaining blank for now. You know, my dream, I want our planet to be healthy and everybody else want it. So that's, that's my prophecy. I'm focusing on the nature and how incredible she is at actually taking care of us.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:18]:
What do you think about my idea that our minds are modeling out possible futures while we're in the dream state and helping us to choose the timeline or choose the path that we would most like to be on in our waking life? Do you think that that idea has any. Is that interesting to you?

Anya Bell [00:53:41]:
I mean, why do you think so many people keep talking to psychics on a regular daily basis? I mean, some people call a psychic once a week because they want to know, right? Well, I guess it's a human nature to know what's to come so I can be prepared for it. That's just a normal human psychology. Like if I'm aware of what's coming, then I'll be more comfortable responding to the situation versus last minute drop panic mode. What do I do now?

Vision Battlesword [00:54:14]:
Yeah, yeah, but what I'm saying is, is not so much like thinking of dreams as predictions of the future, but thinking them more as the creative process of the future, you know, in the. Okay, so, so let's, let's come back to the analogy that I used in my voice note, which is the Electric Sheep screensaver, which you now know exactly what that is and you probably even remember that you saw it in my house in a very special moment a couple of years ago. And yeah, so the Electric Sheep screensaver is the world's premier psychedelic visualization in my opinion. It's been around for like 20 years and it Just keeps evolving and getting better. And the basic premise of the program, it's a computer program that runs on computers and is like the search for extraterrestrial intelligence in concept, which is that it uses your computer's idle time to basically crunch numbers and do work, if you will. But instead of processing astronomical data like the SETI screensaver does, the Electric Sheep screensaver merely creates the most beautiful, surreal, psychedelic fractal visualizations that you've ever seen. And that's the entire point of it. And the reason that it's called Electric Sheep is as a reference to the book by Philip K.

Vision Battlesword [00:55:43]:
Dick called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Which is a sort of a open ended question to open the thought process of what would computers or robots or androids, what would they, what kind of dreams would they have? Which isn't very interesting question on this topic in and of itself, in the light of large language models and AI programs and things of that nature, like are they dreaming? What do they dream about? But the answer of the Electric Sheep screensaver, you know, in a sort of tongue in cheek way, I think, is that these fractal, you know, moving art pieces of psychedelic visualization are the computer's dream. While the computer goes to sleep, the screensaver comes on and it processes, it renders, it renders these animations. And so that's what's interesting to me about the analogy between the screensaver and our dreams is that it's not merely that the computer plays pre programmed content, it's actually creating the content in real time as a co parallel processing, co creative process. So all of the little personal computers all around the world who are running the Electric Sheep screensaver are kind of connected together on a network and are participating in computing tiny pieces of all of these individual animations. And so they're participating in the creation of the dream that they then get to witness as it plays on the screen. Or I don't know that they get to witness it, but we get to witness it. So that's kind of what I'm. That's the possibility I'm entertaining when I think about my recurring dream and how it seemed like I was playing out a loop, like the, like the Electric Sheep fractal loops.

Vision Battlesword [00:57:50]:
I was playing out a loop of a social interaction and trying out different variations of that thing. Was I predicting different futures that could come to pass? Was I merely engaging in a practice exercise of thinking about different ways that things can go and then programming myself subconsciously to learn from those virtual experiences? Or was I Actually crunching models of reality and causing those timelines to get born. And then, you know, as a, as a possibility of choosing the actual reality that I'd like to move into when I get that moment of agency, that's kind of where I'm going with it. Like, are we, are we crunching? Are we like the computers? Are we each kind of processing our frame of this great big multidimensional movie that we call reality?

Anya Bell [00:58:54]:
Yes, 100%, because as you mentioned, you have the evidence from their, you know, awakened state, the reality, right? And then you have your desire, so you're working on resolving the conflict and have the result how you want, and then you overlapping it with the experience that you had with that person or how you feel and feelings and emotions and all of that. And then you add some weird stuff to it. So now it's like realism with surrealism and everything is melty and weird, but it's there. So it's using all the puzzle pieces, you know, all mixed in, in one. This little blender of a soup of a dream that you're trying to make sense out of.

Vision Battlesword [00:59:38]:
Why do you think dreams are so weird? Why, why the surrealist surrealism aspect of it instead of it just being like realism?

Anya Bell [00:59:47]:
Because the judge is off, you know, like talking about parts like one that the judge is there making like, oh my God, what is this weird stuff? But when you're dreaming, it's like, oh, the judge is not there. Let's. Let's see some weird.

Vision Battlesword [01:00:01]:
Oh, so you're almost. It sounds like you're saying that it could be just as weird in our so called waking life, but we have some kind of extra filter that's just not letting us see the weird part.

Anya Bell [01:00:13]:
Or not, because, yeah, the judge will kick in. You know, they're like, how dare you even go in there? They're like, what the fuck was that? I mean, I remember like when I started having all kinds of like visuals and dreams and ideas. I'm like, well, Steven Spielberg made a lot of money on this stuff. You know, there are a lot of crazy movies out there that people produce because of their wild imagination. And only God knows where they got those ideas from.

Vision Battlesword [01:00:41]:
So the differences between the dream experience and the so called waking experience brings me back to waking life, that movie. So I'll just tell you real quickly about it since I know you haven't seen it. It's this movie from the late 90s or early 2000s. I think it might have come out in the year 2000 maybe, or maybe Shortly before. It's by a guy by the name of Richard Linkletter, who is, you know, relatively well known filmmaker. I think he's based here in Austin, Texas. And it's one of the first movies that used a very specific kind of animation technique, which is called rotoscoping. Do you know what that is? Okay, so rotoscoping is when you shoot a live action movie, you know, like with normal cameras, normal film, normal actors, everything normal, you know, environments.

Vision Battlesword [01:01:32]:
But then taking that film and giving it to animators who then use it kind of as an underlay to draw and paint on top of. Okay, you would know what I'm talking.

Anya Bell [01:01:44]:
About if you saw. What's the name of that movie was? Michael. Michael Jordan and the lady with Red Hair. That is like a cartoonish character and a bunny.

Vision Battlesword [01:01:54]:
Oh, who Framed Roger Rabbit?

Anya Bell [01:01:55]:
I don't know the name. Okay, but I think. I think I see what you're saying.

Vision Battlesword [01:02:00]:
Like, not exactly like that. It's. It's not like a hybrid of live action and cartoon. It's. It's like the live action gets completely covered up, okay, with. With whatever the artists paint and draw on top of it. And it's. It creates a very, very surreal effect.

Vision Battlesword [01:02:20]:
Because what they can do is they. They basically redraw and repaint whatever was actually there. So it looks very realistic from a certain perspective. But then they can add all of these surreal aspects on top of it as well, which are, you know, just pure animation. There's. There's a number of movies that have used this technique. And I'm sure you'd know it if you saw it. It's very, very characteristic.

Vision Battlesword [01:02:47]:
It's like. It's a very specific style. Anyway, this was one of the first movies to use it. And the movie itself is about dreaming. And without giving too much away, I don't want to sort of spoil the ending or anything, but just to say that what happens in the movie is that there's a main character who is moving through a very dreamlike space, you know, because of this rotoscoping effect of how everything looks in the world. And he just kind of keeps moving from character to character, having these, like, really deep philosophical conversations. Where they're exploring all different ideas about truth and reality. And it's very much like a sacred conversation, actually.

Vision Battlesword [01:03:30]:
He's going from, like, sacred conversation to sacred conversation with these, like, you know, different people who have a different perspective on life and reality and what it's all about. But as he's going on, a theme emerges which Is that these characters keep telling him about lucid dreaming and how it works and how to do it, and they start telling him in particular about how to detect whether or not you're in a dream. I'm getting goosebumps. Oh, yeah, Right now. So. So he's the main character just kind of like, you know, sort of curious and then a little confused. And then he starts actually like testing his own reality in, in these moments with some of, some of this material that he's been introduced to. And he starts realizing, like, oh, wait a minute, this is a.

Vision Battlesword [01:04:21]:
Or maybe this is a dream. Maybe I'm in a dream. Like, so what these people are telling me to do, these tests are all coming back positive for dreaming. It's like, wait a second, you know, so then he starts, he starts to get a little. Get a little scared and he starts trying to actually wake up. And then he starts to experience the phenomenon, which I don't. This is another phenomenon I'm curious to know if you've had, which is the false awakening.

Anya Bell [01:04:49]:
Have you had that when you think you. When you woke up in the dream from dreaming in a dream? Yeah, I think I have had one like that.

Vision Battlesword [01:04:59]:
I've been having that happening a lot recently.

Anya Bell [01:05:01]:
Oh, so you're waking up? Waking up. Okay.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:05]:
It's very disconcerting. I've had multiple. Okay, so like the movie Inception.

Anya Bell [01:05:09]:
I don't remember that movie.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:11]:
Okay, well, in that movie you can go multiple layers of dreaming deep. You can, in other words, you go into a dream and then in the dream you fall asleep and have a new dream, and then in that dream you can fall asleep and have a new dream and so on and so forth. I've. I've had like multiple false awakenings happen recently where I, like, I woke up in a dream and then woke up again in a dream and then woke up again and here I am. That's all I can really say about it. Okay, I'm back, I guess so far. But at any rate, yeah, so he starts having false awakenings. He's trying to wake up and he wakes up, but then he realizes, nope, still in a dream.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:54]:
And it goes from there. And then that's the point where I'll let you watch the movie if you want to watch it. But what it's reminding me of is when you're saying, okay, the dream is like reality, but so called reality, but it's more surreal. And what I'm curious about is why are there these specific limitations that seem to show up in dreams and have you noticed this as well. So like there's common, the lucid dreamers, the common knowledge of them is that there's certain things that don't work the same in a dream as they do in so called waking life or that you can't do in a dream. Kind of like the dream projection body in Carlos Castaneda material can't eat for some reason. And supposedly in a dream there are certain things you can't do. Like there's a global light that you can't change in the dream.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:54]:
You mentioned it at the very beginning of our conversation. Like is the dream dark or is the dream light? Kind of makes a big difference on what's going on and what the significance of it is. But I think you'd find that if the dream is dark, let's say globally, that you can't make it any lighter no matter what you do. Even if you become lucid in the dream, where you have control of it, in theory, you can't. You, you, you'd flip a light switch and nothing would happen. Or, you know, you would turn on a lamp and it would. Something, you know, the light bulb would seem to turn on, but you'd notice that it didn't actually make anything brighter in the room. Weird stuff like that.

Vision Battlesword [01:07:33]:
Other things, like you can't read text in a dream. You can, you can see a book, you can open the book, but if you look at the page, you'll just get, you know, incoherent symbols. You won't be able to read anything on it. These are just things that I've heard and I think, these are things that I think I have also noticed in my own dreams as well. I'm curious to know if you've noticed telltale signs like that that you can be able to detect when you're in a dream.

Anya Bell [01:08:04]:
They change actually, because I remember even someone posted something like, have you ever wondered why we don't see our phones in our dreams? And I'm like, I do see, I do see cell phone, like, so now I see like, and I do see letters, I see numbers, I see writings. So it changes. I guess it depends how much psych, how much psychedelics you have in your system. Because yes, different people see different details, right? And then they, I, my, my point is it changes. Like, yes, it was different and now I see more or more detailed than I used to. So it's all about practice.

Vision Battlesword [01:08:46]:
Are there any limitations that you are aware of with dreams?

Anya Bell [01:08:50]:
Yeah, there are. There are always some sort of limitation and it's Usually connected to what I'm processing or what I'm dealing in in reality at the moment. That usually goes hand in hand. So it's like, in a way, you know, like in the medical field, they always teach us, like, everybody got a snapping point, right? Like, you can handle a lot of stress, you can handle a lot of drama and trauma, but that at some point you'll snap and you're gonna lose it. So. So I feel like our minds are hiding stuff from us, knowing that we're gonna lose our shit or just, you know, because start spinning out of control and proportion. So it's like a. What are those short circuit protection thingies that we have by our tv? Yeah, fuses.

Anya Bell [01:09:37]:
So that's at least how I see it. Like, if it's not shown to you, that's probably because you're not ready yet. So the layer.

Vision Battlesword [01:09:45]:
So it's like there's. There's protective. Protective mechanisms in the dream space to prevent us from blowing our own fuse.

Anya Bell [01:09:52]:
I mean, just even look at it this way. Like, imagine if you start seeing spirits out of nowhere. Like that can. That can scare people because they're different looking, you know, they're not something that you're used to seeing. So that might do a lot of more harm than good. But if the person is ready for it and was educated and prepared for that kind of, you know, interaction, then your nervous system can handle it. But a lot of times the nervous system is going to be shutting down and. Or like it will be the escape mechanism where you're just gonna black out and you won't even remember the experience because it's too traumatic.

Anya Bell [01:10:36]:
We'll have a different world, have a different capacity for that kind of information to enter, you know.

Vision Battlesword [01:10:45]:
Huh. What do spirits look like?

Anya Bell [01:10:48]:
Oh, they have different shapes and colors and feelings and. Because in my case, like, I started smelling them too, like smelling the diseases and that's just not fun. So it's like a combination of not feeling like they feel yucky in my body and then I see them and then I smell it too. It's just the whole. The whole picture is right. And so, you know. But there are also sometimes, like, for example, one of the participants was processing a lot of stuff and it was all dark. It was all dark.

Anya Bell [01:11:25]:
But I remember zooming in and looking at it like, as if it was, you know, I was using microscope because I was just fascinated by the texture and the color. Like it's. I guess because, like, I like to be a little designer, so I like to play with different textures and, like, the outfits, the layering and everything else and flexibility and how it bends the light and all that kind of like little details. So I was zooming in to. To. And just in. In awe and fascination how, like, a texture like that can exist and like. Like I can use it in one of my creations.

Anya Bell [01:11:59]:
But if I would zoom out, I would probably see a pretty gross looking thing. But zooming into it and focusing on what was helpful for me, or, you know, my curiosity took me to that wasn't as scary. But they. They do like the. The dark ones, especially, like the lower vibrational ones, the little one, little guys, I call them. They're literally like roaches. You know, they're shifty, they're fast, and you just see the shade, like a shadow running really fast from one corner to another. They do not.

Anya Bell [01:12:31]:
They do not like the light. They hide. And the moment you bring your attention to them, it's like you killing them in a way with your light. So they run. But some light ones, they literally look like stars. A lot of them look like stars in the sky. Just, you know, sharp pointy appendages, extensions, or they're circular like orbs and sparkly like glitter. They all have different shapes and structures to them.

Vision Battlesword [01:13:04]:
Wow. How long have you been able to see them?

Anya Bell [01:13:07]:
Oh, God, I don't even. I cannot even put the time timestamp on it. Obviously psychedelics brought it up to, like, bigger extent, but probably since I was a baby.

Vision Battlesword [01:13:17]:
Wow. Do you see them in your dreams and in your waking life, Bo?

Anya Bell [01:13:20]:
Yeah. Like, for example, I was taking the exorcism class because hand in hand was work that I do, right? So I remember she was teaching us about the hierarchy of the dark ones. And my computer just shut off. I was kicked out from the lecture halfway through it. And I remember walking to the kitchen and the visual that I got was like. Because she was just talking about the lower vibrational beings, like Lucifer and demons and you name it, right? And I'm walking into the kitchen and the visual that I got was, it's like, if you ever been to a, you know, ghetto nightclub, like, the darkest of the dark, and you're the only white girl coming in there. First of all, some people gonna love you for being there because they're like, oh, she likes this kind of stuff, so, you know, she's into it. We love you for being here.

Anya Bell [01:14:20]:
Some people are gonna be like, you know, not so happy to see you there. And especially, like, if you're the only white girl there, you Know, the other women might be very not happy. They're like, oh, here we go. Here comes the competition. And she's gonna win simply because she's white. But it was so funny how, like, I'm walking into the kitchen, and I get this visual, like, as if I'm walking into the really dark nightclub, and I'm, like, seeing all of them, and I'm like, good day to you all. And I started laughing so hard, and they. It, like, it disappeared again, like, in a second.

Anya Bell [01:14:53]:
But it was so funny how you just. It's so hard to explain, but it was really funny. I'm like, right after the lecture, but, you know, hierarchy of the dark beings. I'm walking into the nightclub of the dark. Of the dark beings. Some of them gonna love you, and some of them are gonna hate you.

Vision Battlesword [01:15:15]:
And some of them. Yeah, some of them look at you and see food.

Anya Bell [01:15:18]:
Yeah, exactly.

Vision Battlesword [01:15:19]:
Some of them look at you and are just like, huh, Right. I wonder what that is.

Anya Bell [01:15:23]:
Right, right. So that's. That's how I see it. And usually, you know, I always thought that I'm just creative because let's say someone is telling me a story, and I see, like, a little movie inside of my head. So I thought that was just me being creative. And then I was told that, no, you're actually clairvoyant. You see things. You see the other dimensions.

Anya Bell [01:15:43]:
I'm like, is that what it is? And they're like, yeah. So if you see a little cartoon or a movie in your head when someone's telling you, like, a little scenario and story, you know, what's up?

Vision Battlesword [01:15:55]:
What's up?

Anya Bell [01:15:56]:
You're clairvoyant.

Vision Battlesword [01:15:56]:
Another dimension. Yeah.

Anya Bell [01:15:57]:
You're clairvoyant. Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:00]:
Well, I think I have seen some spirits sometimes, but rarely. I don't seem to. I don't seem to perceive that a lot. But after my father passed away about two years ago this month. No, last month. Yeah. I had some strange experiences. I definitely had some strange smells.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:31]:
I had some strange noises and dreams, for sure. I tend to have. Yeah, I tend to have dreams with and. About my father right around the time of his death and his birthday, which is kind of in the same general part of the calendar. And he's visiting.

Anya Bell [01:16:52]:
Yeah. I'm sorry to hear it. But he. They're visiting, especially when it's around their. Their transition time, because my mom does the same thing. She shows up.

Vision Battlesword [01:17:02]:
Yeah. I was wondering if you. If you thought that was real, you know, as compared to just, you know, my own sort of psychological process. Well, then maybe off the record, I'll tell you about my dreams sometime. Okay, that's a good question. I would like to ask, what meaning do you make out of dreams? Do you, do you spend any time analyzing them? Do you look, look at them for clues or themes or, you know, meaning?

Anya Bell [01:17:31]:
I guess, I guess it depends how emotionally charged the dream was, right? So if, if it was really imprinted to the point where you like, you know, wake up sobbing or wake up almost like paralyzed or constricted, like as if, you know, every single muscle is so tense, then yes, I will be exploring what is going on because that's my subconscious speaking to me and my conscious mind is just ignoring what's happening and, you know, sweeping it under the rug kind of situation. So it all depends the charge there is. I mean, if it's a beautiful dream about my ex, that I'm in the La La land, oh, I'll milk that. I'll make a little milk that all day long. I'll be in that loving energy all day. I mean, because I much. I prefer to be in that state versus, you know, being neutral or negative and then lower vibrational states. So you use it however you want to apply it.

Vision Battlesword [01:18:34]:
But you don't, do, you don't necessarily do a lot of dream analysis in the sense.

Anya Bell [01:18:38]:
I mean, I wake up at a.

Vision Battlesword [01:18:40]:
Dream about a rocket ship and that means travel or I don't know, I don't know what, I don't know what they are. But there's, there's a, there's a few people in my life that tend to see that seem to assign a lot of that kind of metaphorical meaning. Like as if, you know, telling someone about my dream and then like as if they can translate that into, oh, well, that's what this is about. It means your father, you know, you, blah, blah, blah.

Anya Bell [01:19:06]:
No, it's true because usually that's what I was telling you at the beginning, that when I write my dreams down, that's how I usually get a lot of answers right away. Like it unlocked, it unlocks like, oh, you were trying to, you know, resolve this, this or that, or you're planning ahead and these are the little hints. So, yeah, I, it's so it, it's almost automatic to me now because I was playing with the dream book for so long and then now play. Sometimes playing with ChatGPT based on the Edgar Casey's work and then, you know, the, the, the whole global research on, you know, symbols and translation just to see if it resonates or if it's like completely off. So if I'm looking for the answer, then I'll be doing more research and looking into it. And then if it's something that didn't have much charge to it, then I'm gonna let it go. Because I know whatever I'm gonna need, it will be shown to me again one way or another, either through movie, video, you know, someone telling me something like, I'll see it on the. On the billboard.

Anya Bell [01:20:15]:
Like it will. It will be known. Like it, you know, the information will be repeated.

Vision Battlesword [01:20:22]:
Have you ever asked ChatGPT if it dreams or what it dreams about?

Anya Bell [01:20:27]:
No, I should. That's a great question. That's a great question.

Vision Battlesword [01:20:33]:
I don't talk to it myself, but if you would talk to it for me, I'm.

Anya Bell [01:20:37]:
Write it down before I forget. Yeah. Ask.

Vision Battlesword [01:20:42]:
What do you think we are doing when we Dream Storm? When we do the Dream Storming practice exercise game, however you want to think.

Anya Bell [01:20:52]:
Of it, like what we did. Like what we did two years ago. That's the one you refer to, correct?

Vision Battlesword [01:20:57]:
Yes, yes. When. When we do a Dream Storm mastermind experience where we cast our dream and we capture it on a whiteboard live in a, you know, an enhanced state, what do you think it is that we are actually doing? What's. I. I have my own theory of it. I have. I have an actual model. I have a model of how I think that manifests or meaning, like what's going on psychologically, spiritually and existentially when we do that practice.

Vision Battlesword [01:21:30]:
But I'm really curious to know your thoughts on it. What do you think is happening in that process?

Anya Bell [01:21:36]:
First of all, it's a great work. I don't know if you're aware of that, but it's not the first time when I'm working with plum medicines and she particular brings you in and she explains that we're doing a big grid work there and that's on a. That's on your responsibility kind of thing. And then from a personal, just being a participant of that, you're pulling out the deepest desires of what people need and then you're helping. That process helps to focus better and weed out all the unnecessary noise that might be hindering the process of achieving that result. So it's there, right? But it's covered with layers of what ifs. But I can't and, you know, whatever the excuses are. So you're pulling out the subconscious desires, if you will.

Anya Bell [01:22:33]:
And I, I love that game because today I was actually telling my friend about it. I'm like, you know, we all have different. Like someone wants a house and someone wants a clean planet. We all are very different.

Vision Battlesword [01:22:44]:
Yeah, yeah. And yet somehow it somehow all ties together. At least that's what I've. That's what I've observed. Like that Toltec idea of the shared dream, you know, has really. I feel like I've just been seeing more and more confirmation of that. You know, the more that I do this so called great work. What does that mean, the great work?

Anya Bell [01:23:08]:
Grid work. Energetic grid of the planet.

Vision Battlesword [01:23:11]:
Oh, grid. Grid work. I see. It's grid work. Oh, okay. Tell me more about that. How is dreamstorming participating in grid work?

Anya Bell [01:23:19]:
You asking me something that I didn't even know how to decipher myself fully yet. So I just. I just got multiple visuals about it on multiple occasions already because it's like our multi dimensional versions are setting up a bigger energetic grid for the collective. Was this kind of stuff instead of just. I mean, it's individual work, of course, but at the same time it is plugging in a bigger network that we're in a way manipulating.

Vision Battlesword [01:23:55]:
Right, so you think we're building a new grid? Yes, a new energetic grid.

Anya Bell [01:23:59]:
Maybe not building. Not. Maybe not building, but tweaking it a little bit. Right. Adjusting.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:06]:
Okay.

Anya Bell [01:24:06]:
Yeah. Kind of like.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:08]:
It's so funny you use the word grid because. Is a grid another word for matrix?

Anya Bell [01:24:14]:
Yes, exactly. What is the matrix but the matrix. See, the matrix is. How do I. Hold on, let me. So grid work is like a. What's the word? Scaffolder?

Vision Battlesword [01:24:28]:
No, scaffolding.

Anya Bell [01:24:30]:
Yeah, scaffolding and then matrix. It's like the air on the inside and the molecules on the inside and everything that. That is locked in under that dome. Let's. Let's just say that, you know, the scaffolding is in the shape of a dome and everything what's inside is matrix, but the grid is on the outer dome and like holds it all in place. That's at least how I see it.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:52]:
Interesting. So what you're saying now causes me to reflect back on something I heard from Matthias De Stefano, which is that the word matrix derives from the word for mother and the word pattern derives from the word for father. Patter. And so like, if we think of the. If we think of a matrix, like the. Like an Excel spreadsheet, right? There's rows and columns, a grid that creates a matrix, then the data, the values that go inside those cells is the pattern. And there's something very masculine and feminine about that, about the Matrix being the container, the open cell, you know, that's. It kind of conveys ideas of holding and embracing and enfolding and containing and receiving.

Vision Battlesword [01:25:50]:
And then the pattern meaning the information that kind of goes inside is very, feels very masculine. It's like the thing that penetrates, that fills up that it's more insubstantial somehow and yet it is the substance at the same time. It's like just so interesting to me to think of things that way. And so my question to you is, are we in the Matrix?

Anya Bell [01:26:16]:
100%.

Vision Battlesword [01:26:17]:
What is the Matrix?

Anya Bell [01:26:19]:
Universal soup of energies. Okay. That's the best way to I can describe it.

Vision Battlesword [01:26:25]:
Is it a simulation?

Anya Bell [01:26:27]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:26:28]:
What's the simulation running inside of?

Anya Bell [01:26:30]:
What's this? Are you who made this? Same question. Yeah, I have no idea.

Vision Battlesword [01:26:42]:
Is it possible that we're co creating it? Like is it possible that there is no outside? Is it possible that there's no, there's no giant universe sized computer that we're inside of, but rather that where somehow both the computer and the program at the same time? Are we creating it?

Anya Bell [01:27:04]:
That's such a convoluted question that like it stretching my mind to a whole another dimension. I don't know. It's both.

Vision Battlesword [01:27:13]:
Are you having fun?

Anya Bell [01:27:13]:
Yeah, because it can, it's like you can zoom in and zoom out right, to however far you want to and then zoom in to your individual experience and bleeding finger like, or little, you know, speck on your finger.

Vision Battlesword [01:27:27]:
Have you heard about the DMT laser experiment?

Anya Bell [01:27:31]:
I just saw a video about it briefly.

Vision Battlesword [01:27:36]:
What do you think about that?

Anya Bell [01:27:37]:
I mean have you ever tried looking at yourself in the mirror while you're on psychedelics?

Vision Battlesword [01:27:42]:
Yeah.

Anya Bell [01:27:43]:
Yes. You see things, right?

Vision Battlesword [01:27:47]:
What do you see?

Anya Bell [01:27:48]:
It's like if now the medical technology is actually so incredible, incredible and they have like these machines where you can like put, put like a little laser being on top of your hand and you can see the blood vessels, right? So for example, like nurses, they really struggle with elderly patients giving them, you know, the IVs, putting IVs in and everything else. But with this technology you can shine a light on your arm and you see exactly where it's at so you don't have to guess. So same, same concept, right? Like you, you look in the mirror and then like oh, this skin kind of melted and I see blood vessels and then there's some other kind of like different colored, God knows what it is, right? Like it's. Or I remember even standing so close in front of the mirror That I felt like I can walk into it and go into like Narnia, you know, the whole another dimension while I was there. It didn't feel like it was a layer or it felt like it was a portal. Right. Like I could walk right through it. I, like, I would not bump my head on the mirror, you know, on the glass.

Anya Bell [01:28:54]:
That's like stopping me.

Vision Battlesword [01:28:56]:
Did you try?

Anya Bell [01:28:58]:
I was scared. I'm not gonna lie. I was not that I was not that adventurous.

Vision Battlesword [01:29:05]:
Yeah.

Anya Bell [01:29:07]:
Because what if I'm like, what if I'm gonna like it there a little too much?

Vision Battlesword [01:29:11]:
What if they're all right and this. It's all just a dream. It's all just a hallucination.

Anya Bell [01:29:17]:
Have you, have you tried the laser?

Vision Battlesword [01:29:19]:
I have not personally tried it yet.

Anya Bell [01:29:22]:
Do you know people who did?

Vision Battlesword [01:29:23]:
Not personally, no. But yeah, there's definitely some people who are talking about checking it out. But let's just say for the sake of argument, let's say that it happens to be true, that we, let's say you and me, Anya and others that we know can actually verify and confirm this from our own real experience. That when you shine a diffracted laser on a reflective surface and ingest some, you know, like a sub breakthrough dose of dmt and then look at this reflection without looking into the laser and not hurting your eyes for sure.

Anya Bell [01:30:05]:
Right.

Vision Battlesword [01:30:05]:
But when you look at this reflection while on dmt, that it happens to be true. Say that you see through a crack in reality to the other side where there are lines of code, of special characters that look very much like what's described in the movie the Matrix.

Anya Bell [01:30:24]:
Zeros and ones.

Vision Battlesword [01:30:25]:
Right. I think what's being described is that it's some kind of like alien Alphabet.

Anya Bell [01:30:30]:
Light codes, kind of.

Vision Battlesword [01:30:32]:
Let's just say it's light codes. Whatever it is. Let's just say for the sake of argument that multiple people can look through this so called crack and see the same characters. And we scientifically confirmed this. Like, yeah, we're all actually seeing the same thing at the same time. This is a quote unquote shared hallucination somehow or some other phenomenon that we've only just discovered. What would that mean? What would it mean if there's code, if there's alien character code just on the other side of some kind of like veil of perception that we can actually puncture using drugs and lasers. What does that mean about this world?

Anya Bell [01:31:18]:
Honestly?

Vision Battlesword [01:31:19]:
I think it means, help me understand.

Anya Bell [01:31:21]:
I think it might mean panic for a lot of people.

Vision Battlesword [01:31:24]:
Yeah, no kidding.

Anya Bell [01:31:25]:
Because there is A reason why a lot of this stuff is hidden because some people just cannot even grasp the concept that there are beings out there that are having different kinds, you know, set of skills and technology. For us individually, I think it just opens up a beautiful possibility to play with it and see if we can manipulate it and change it. So, yeah, I would like to change it. I would like to play with it. And I mean, I guess that's why we're doing what we're doing. Right? You're trying to change the perception of people and kind of like move them to different timelines, was it?

Vision Battlesword [01:32:05]:
Yeah. Well, you're talking about dream storming now, right?

Anya Bell [01:32:08]:
Right. But isn't it the same what we're doing?

Vision Battlesword [01:32:10]:
Well, that's a good question. You know, what I think we're doing is we are creating a crystal clear projection of our preferred reality. And I think what we're doing is we're removing. I agree with your description in a lot of ways, like what you said. I think we're removing a lot of the static, the noise, the interference from our signal, the signal that we broadcast into the collective dream. We're making our signal very clean, very pure and very specific. And I think that however you care to interpret that, whether you prefer a purely materialist frame which just says it's all psychological and we're getting ourselves, you know, aligned internally to our desires and the things that we really would like to create, which manifests as behavior, and therefore we create a self fulfilling prophecy which says, I would like to do this thing. And then, huh, what do you know, I did it.

Vision Battlesword [01:33:24]:
Or whether it's a more spiritual. There's a spiritual component to it, which I personally believe, or a metaphysical component to it, or an energetic or magical, if you want, component to it, which are all things that I think, I actually believe, you know, that we, we are giving and receiving energy to this matrix and that we are adding our pattern to it, our information to it. And then we, you know, therefore receive what gets mixed with other people's intentions and energy and information and gets sent back to us. Either any which way you look at it, it seems to work. Yeah, you know, it seems to be a useful focusing device to help people to realize the reality that they would prefer. And that's good enough for me.

Anya Bell [01:34:21]:
I mean, your, your own point. Was it being crystal clear? Because I don't think I've seen, I've had a visual more crisp, clear than that. There was. I, I remember I was just fascinated. I'm like, if I could see See stuff like that on a regular, daily basis. Like, whoa, holy cow. Like, then the rest of the life feels like a dream. Hazy one, Right?

Vision Battlesword [01:34:47]:
Yeah. That's interesting, isn't it? How sometimes, yeah, sometimes our waking life can feel less real than a dream or any kind of peak experience that we have. That's so interesting, huh? So do you think the laser experiment is true or do you think it's a hoax?

Anya Bell [01:35:11]:
There's only one way to find out.

Vision Battlesword [01:35:14]:
That's my girl.

Anya Bell [01:35:15]:
There's only one way to find out. Like, yeah, okay, we have all kinds of information out there and who created it, but there's only one way to find out. Try.

Vision Battlesword [01:35:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, worst case scenario, probably have a fun time.

Anya Bell [01:35:33]:
I mean, I hope so.

Vision Battlesword [01:35:36]:
Don't look directly to the laser.

Anya Bell [01:35:38]:
Right. Or sunshine, for that matter. Not at least until after 3:00pm yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:35:46]:
Is there anything else that you wanted to make sure we talk about when we're on the topic of dreams?

Anya Bell [01:35:52]:
Dream big, people. That's all I want to say to everyone. Dream big. Because we are lacing this reality with these dreams. It's like, you know, if it's all. It's like a giant adult coloring book was the outlines, and then you pencil in whatever colors you. You want to.

Vision Battlesword [01:36:10]:
I love that. I think we covered a lot of ground.

Anya Bell [01:36:13]:
I think so, too.

Vision Battlesword [01:36:15]:
This was super, super fun. I'm really. Yeah, I'm really happy that we did this again, and I'd love to do it again soon. Anytime you want.

Anya Bell [01:36:24]:
Let's. Let's do it. You know, I'm game. Just let's come up with a really fun topic so people will be interested in hearing different ideas. Because, you know, in the collective, visionaries are visionaries, right? You have people who see things that other people don't. And for you and I, that's partially our mission, to see things that people don't and bring it into this world and then throw it to somebody else to work with it and play with it. But we can bring the ideas in and capture them.

Vision Battlesword [01:36:57]:
Yep. I think that's the whole. That's the idea with this whole process of these conversations is let's pull in a whole bunch of fun ideas and then see what sticks or see what people want to play with. So thank you so much for playing with dreams with me today. This was one of my favorite conversations we've ever done.

Anya Bell [01:37:18]:
I agree.

Vision Battlesword [01:37:19]:
Had so much fun. So, yeah, thanks so much for your time, Anya. I hope you had fun, too. And I really look forward to talking with you again soon.

Anya Bell [01:37:26]:
Thank you for initiating this dream talk and doing the dream work.