Vision Battlesword [00:00:00]:
It is 11:11 exactly as we begin our recording. JJ, how are you doing today?

J.J. Ruescas [00:00:08]:
Chill, chill. Very chill. Yeah. And I have this excitement that it is soothing for this conversation.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:18]:
Oh, soothing excitement. Well, that's. Well, that's exciting, I suppose. Who are you? J.J. Ruescas?

J.J. Ruescas [00:00:30]:
This one, this identity today. So they might change in the future, has changed from the past. So right now, the identity is this human optimization strategist that I created out of parts of different areas of my life that I happen to not have a traditional label. So I had to create my own, which is human optimization strategist. And that is focused on the idea of we humans can optimize continuously, first individually and then collectively, and not from a standpoint of hustle, culture, or this type a personality, but in essence, it is flowing with nature. Nature is constantly iterating and optimizing things, so.

Vision Battlesword [00:01:20]:
Hmm. So are you saying your identity is a construct right now?

J.J. Ruescas [00:01:26]:
It's a construct. Well, it has always been a construct. I would say this one is, for the first time, something that I decided to construct it myself, intellectually and like with different parts, being more aware of it. And I know that in the future, it's gonna change. I don't know how, I don't know where, but I know it's gonna mutate.

Vision Battlesword [00:01:45]:
Fascinating. Well, I am vision battle sword. I'm the founder of Sacred Light, the creator of intentional autonomous relating, and the host of sacred conversations. And today, I would like for you to tell me everything that you know about optimization, starting with what is optimization.

J.J. Ruescas [00:02:06]:
First of all, I like your identity today. Thank you. Great. Identity. So, how about optimization? What I call optimization is this idea of continuous improvement, or what in Japanese is called kaisen. K a I z e n. This kanji that doesn't have a full translation in other languages, but it goes around the lines of continuously improving. And if there is a continuous improvement, that means that there is time, and time that is going from past to the present to future.

J.J. Ruescas [00:02:41]:
And in those timeline, there are opportunities for experiments. And when I was coming on my way here, I was thinking, wow, everything is actually an experiment. Even when we're trying to optimize for something, maybe trying to, let's say, nowadays, optimizing for productivity, so to speak, I want to be more productive. So we align something in our psyche, in our body, in our tools, in our toys, to aim to that goal. But that optimization is not a straight line. It's not like going from .1 to .2 and coming from the tech background, we know that that is exactly what happens? It's not a straight line of going from version one to version two, and voila, magically, we're all good. No, no. There is an iterative process which implies there is going to be failures.

J.J. Ruescas [00:03:35]:
But nature is very smart. It is constantly doing micro iterations or micro experiments to see what fits according to the context, according to the species, according to an ecosystem. So for me, nature is continuously optimizing and being part of nature, we have the chance to do those micro experiments that our body is continuously doing, by the way.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:02]:
So, optimization is a process of experimentation to continuously improve something and to adapt.

J.J. Ruescas [00:04:12]:
Even according to something. Something I got optimal, let's say, 20 years ago, may not be optimal right now.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:19]:
So optimization is the pursuit of what is optimal. But what is optimal is kind of dependent on context. Or it's dependent on definition.

J.J. Ruescas [00:04:29]:
Yeah, in a way. Exactly. Example, Windows 98. Yeah, it was optimal in 98. Well, yeah, yeah, but it was good enough. It did the work.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:40]:
True.

J.J. Ruescas [00:04:41]:
So at some point, it was optimizing for something for some people under some context, and it went great. Nowadays, some people are still using a version of Windows 98 in a context where tools have changed, context has changed, technology has evolved, we, as humans, have evolved our, our interaction with technology. So in that regard, something was functional at that time, becomes not so functional at this moment.

Vision Battlesword [00:05:08]:
So, with regard to optimization, you've brought out some puzzle pieces so far, which is experimentation, improvement, adaptation, and learning, learning, and changing definitions of whatever is that optimal state, whatever, whatever is that destination that optimization is heading toward, which we may call optimal. How do we decide for ourselves what is optimal for us?

J.J. Ruescas [00:05:37]:
I was thinking about this one way to realize that something is not optimal, or is whether we call it suboptimal or even at some point dysfunctional, is when the output, the satisfaction that we're receiving, or that we're creating for ourselves at some point is not satisfactory anymore, and it could be even suffering or painful at some point. So think about this, going back to the idea of the identities. An identity was useful at some point. I'm a student, I'm a husband, I'm a whatever, right? And at some point, that identity was super useful, was optimized for something that was providing life fulfillment. What happens is when the context changes, the person changes, the situation changes, and that identity is not optimal anymore, it starts bringing pain or a sense of lack of fulfillment in life.

Vision Battlesword [00:06:27]:
Yeah. So this idea of looking at usefulness and also satisfaction and suffering as benchmarks for how we decide what optimal means for us at any given moment, in time, at this particular present, I wonder, so is optimal the same as perfection?

J.J. Ruescas [00:06:48]:
Not at all. Okay. For me, not at all. The reason is because perfection is this unattainable state. As humans, we are designed to be imperfect. Nature is imperfect because otherwise it's going to be stuck in a state that, okay, we reach optimal point, we're going to stay here forever. But that is, for me, that's something that doesn't happen. Now, going back to this point of optimization, I'm not talking only about trying to aim for continuous seek of pleasure, of continuous seek of happiness.

J.J. Ruescas [00:07:15]:
No, optimal. For example, an optimal body that is functional, that is movable, requires to have some kind of stressors, whether it is going to the gym, going for a run. And those moments are painful for the body. I'm not talking about suffering. We can go into philosophical state there, but there needs to be some pain that stretches and stresses the system in a positive way, creating in this case, nervous system that is more resilient.

Vision Battlesword [00:07:43]:
Okay. But it's still. I feel like we're kind of dancing around it a little bit here. Somehow. There's some kind of an end state that we can imagine, which we call optimal, that has something to do with functionality, resilience, satisfaction. In other words, like that's that we can imagine this state, we call that optimal. But like, how do we decide what optimal looks like? You know, doesn't it seem like sometimes you're a human optimization strategist? Does it seem like sometimes there's categorical definitions or universal definitions of, well, this is what an optimal human should look like, and therefore, this is what we're pursuing in terms of optimization? Or is optimization or that optimal state more personal?

J.J. Ruescas [00:08:34]:
I can say in my perspective, it's completely personal. Now, there are some standards. For example, we all need sleep, we all need oxygen, we all need some types of food. But because of our individuality and our uniqueness, our nervous system requires something very different. You and I have very similar body structures, and probably our workouts are very similar. But because of, I don't know, adaptations based on our nervous system or injuries, we need to do little modifications that separate, even branch out the workout that was for both of us. For example, this I remember many years ago, I decided to get me a personal trainer. So I said, I'm going to find someone from my hometown, because where we were born and raised, it's very similar.

J.J. Ruescas [00:09:20]:
So I found a guy that was my friend's brother, and this guy won several bodybuilding competitions. And there was a little bit of a huge difference, which was he was shorter than I am, he had a completely different metabolism, and I was following exactly his, his nutritional recipe and his workout recipe. So the guy was very bulky, very, very muscular. And in my case, I started following his recipe. I started getting inflated, but feeling stuck within myself. Right. I looked good in some of the clothes that I had, but internally it didn't feel good. I felt bloated, but I was following the recipe.

J.J. Ruescas [00:10:00]:
Right? Like, cognitively, intellectually, that's his recipe. I'm gonna follow it. Well, he got me his results that were not the ones that I wanted. So my desire for optimal health in one way led me obviously, to a wrong, a path that I did not foresee coming, but that was bringing suffering in this case. Now, at some point, I stopped working with him, and I thought, okay, who do I know that has a similar body type that I do? Let's go from that approach. And I found several actors on Hollywood that have my similar body type and height, etcetera. So it's easy to find their workouts and nutrition. So I started following those ones, and now we had a very different result.

J.J. Ruescas [00:10:43]:
Wow. Okay. So obviously, that doesn't mean that I'm going to follow exactly what they're doing. With, obviously, activities that we have or lifestyles that we have. There has to be also variations of that, but variations that adapt accordingly also across time, across context, across resources available, so many things.

Vision Battlesword [00:11:04]:
So what I'm kind of seeing coming through is whatever we consider to be optimal is kind of our personal best. Like you brought in the concept of having an injury. Or, you know, there's all different sort of changes that our bodies can go through, that our minds can go through, that can be situational, circumstantial, temporary, or maybe ongoing. But whatever that sum total of our circumstances is, combined with our natural predispositions from genetics and so forth, we can identify a state that we would describe as, this is the best. This is my best expression for myself at this moment. At this moment. And that's what I'm pursuing. That's what I'm optimizing toward.

J.J. Ruescas [00:11:52]:
Another example, let's say parents. First time parents, right? They think that they don't know what it's coming. So immediately the first months, their sleep get completely disrupted. I have several clients whose baby was born a few months ago, and they're like, oh, my God, I cannot live my 8 hours. I cannot think clearly, and I'm enjoying my baby, but this is happening. So what we do with that, okay, with the circumstances, how are you going to do this with your partner? In case they have a partner, what is your window of work? How can we schedule naps in between? So we start finding other ways that their nervous system can get enough recovery, not only with the initial blueprint of 8 hours per night, let's say now those 8 hours, we can split them, and we start adapting the system to the circumstances to still get them fully functional, at least maintenance mode, and still enjoying being with their newborn.

Vision Battlesword [00:12:50]:
Yeah. And I'm just sort of sitting here thinking about other ways that I've used the word optimization in my past lives, one of my past lives, I have a tech background and also a business background. Those two overlap. And I, I think about the way that we use the word optimization, both in business and technology. And it has a lot to do with, it seems to me, removing inefficiency. Like when we say we want to optimize a process, I want to optimize my business, I want to optimize this computer system. It has to do with looking for waste. It has to do with looking for interesting ways that things are not being fully utilized, that are operating inefficiently.

Vision Battlesword [00:13:28]:
What do you think about does that efficiency and optimization to you?

J.J. Ruescas [00:13:33]:
You and I come from tech background, so let me ask this other question. Was also optimization? I see, I can see how optimization I can relate to. That was a way to remove waste. But was it also, I should say, and was it also another way or a synonym for maximization?

Vision Battlesword [00:13:51]:
Yeah, I think maybe. Are those, I'm not sure those two things are the same thing. Is removing inefficiency the same as maximizing efficiency? I guess, in a way. Or maximizing productivity? Maximizing. I see what you're saying there. I think they're two sides of the same coin, in a way, right?

J.J. Ruescas [00:14:11]:
Yeah, exactly. For me, optimization comes from those two angles. Whether it is the majority of people, when they think about optimization, or at least in the people that I have encountered, is, okay, what gadget do I need to add? What supplement do I need to add? What new guru I need to learn from? When? Sometimes it is the question, instead of what adding what we should add, it is what should we subtract? That's another way to optimize, like you said, right? Like how long, how long are you spending? Or how much time are you spending on social media? Maybe we should subtract that. Or how many narrative thoughts are you having per week? Let's somehow figure that out. And what would happen if we do an experiment of having a bubble of five minutes a day when we switch the thinking flavor, what would happen?

Vision Battlesword [00:15:01]:
Interesting. So the process of optimization, it seems to have something to do with subtracting the negative and adding things that are more positive in terms of maximizing whatever the end result is or whatever the desired result is, whatever the desired result.

J.J. Ruescas [00:15:18]:
And not only the positive or negative, because at some point, we don't know. Sometimes I remove things that I thought that they were air code negative when they were the source of our success. I said, oh crap, I didn't think about that. Right. But the only way to realize that is by performing experiments now control experience, not simply ad hoc experiments, saying, you know, from today, I'm going to stop doing this. And voila. Like turn off something? No, no. But saying, my theory is that if I remove this thing for this period of time, something may happen.

J.J. Ruescas [00:15:49]:
I don't know what, but let's say five days, we're going to do this. A good friend of mine, he started doing an experiment in his company that he said he was listening to a book from Alex Hormose, the 100 million sales book. And in the book and YouTube videos, Hormossi says, you should be running 4 hours per day of promotions. You yourself should be promoted for 4 hours of services as a company. And my friend said, I cannot spend 4 hours, but I think that there is a point there. It seems that there is a point. So he decided to do seven days of just 1 hour per day of doing that. And he's starting to see results, results that he didn't see before.

J.J. Ruescas [00:16:32]:
So I told him, please let me know when you finish those seven days. It's going to be in a few days. So I can also learn from his experiences. And it may not be my context, but now, as we are tribal and we connect through storytelling, like, oh, my friend did that. It may not be my feet at some point, but I know that it's going to be helpful for someone else.

Vision Battlesword [00:16:51]:
Yeah, I think that's a really important point for us to hone in on, is just that piece that we were talking about before about comparison. Like comparing yourself to someone else's version of optimization, or someone else's ideal, or an ideal that is somehow a construct like we were talking about with identities. And where do these frameworks come from? Where do these ideals come from? There's so much data, there's so much evidence, there's so much theory, there's so many people's different experiences. All of which, like you say, can be very, very valuable for us to decide what optimization looks like for us, or what optimal, I guess I should say, looks like for us. But there can also be a real danger in pursuing someone else's version of optimal, which doesn't necessarily make sense for whatever we might decide is our best expression. Meaning, including all of the different trade offs that we could have in life. Maybe if I spend 4 hours a day doing marketing, that's 3 hours a day that I'm not doing meditating or exercising, or spending time with close relationships, or whatever other activities bring joy and light and other forms of personal development or even professional development into my life. So, yeah, I just think there's something really important there about how we apply discernment to all of these different recommendations for optimization that we may get from all of these different sources that we're bombarded with every day.

J.J. Ruescas [00:18:23]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:18:24]:
What do you think?

J.J. Ruescas [00:18:26]:
When we admire a person, this is what I've seen. We tend to pick up their aspirations, their optimization, their drivers. And at the beginning, when we don't know what we don't know, that's good. At the beginning and later, an exercise in wisdom. And this specifically starting with discernment is, oh, is this the driver that I really want to go through? Is this the. I want to have the Ferrari. Am I optimizing for the Ferrari? Am I optimizing for the beautiful wife that is timeless, looks timeless and looks like a Barbie doll. What am I optimizing for? And by the way, I can say that the optimization is not only, it doesn't come from this procedural, transactional cult thinking, or sequential thinking, it comes many times from an emotion that wants to be, that we want to experience more often, or that we want to avoid as much as we can.

J.J. Ruescas [00:19:25]:
Many times I found myself optimizing, air quote, optimizing for trying to avoid feeling something. I've been with partners, for example, who they were optimizing not to look like fools, so they would do anything so that the other person would not think that they seem like they were not smart enough. Fascinating.

Vision Battlesword [00:19:49]:
Now we're getting into it. I love this point about what are you optimizing for? And that I love this idea that we can notice. Are we optimizing toward or are we optimizing away from something? What else have you noticed about that?

J.J. Ruescas [00:20:06]:
Within my own, within this organism, I've noticed how I'm optimizing. And this is very subconscious, right? In my case, it was. I was, when I was in my twenties, I was optimizing for avoiding loneliness. And therefore I used to plan ahead to have at least another human body next to me in the same room. It didn't care if it was something that it was fulfilling for. I just needed to have a human body there. But I didn't realize that I had this bias against or being by myself. So unconsciously, I was doing continuously.

J.J. Ruescas [00:20:44]:
Obviously, the cognitive or intellectual process is a vision. What are we going to do tomorrow? Or what are we going over the weekend? It looks like. Like that, it sounds like that. But the driver, the optimization, I was moving away from loneliness, and I had to at some point, stop that and start getting friends back with the. Not the idea of loneliness, but with the idea of solitude, which became beautiful for me. Solitude now is, wow, it's a gift, it's me time, right? And when I'm lacking off of that, then I start getting into suboptimal state. You will see me like, when I'm surrounded by too many people for too long, I go grumpy. And in that case, I optimize for solitude time.

J.J. Ruescas [00:21:26]:
So even during the day, the optimization is changing. The direction might change in many optimizations, so to speak. So it's adaptation in that regard.

Vision Battlesword [00:21:36]:
Yeah, I love that. So optimization is really a process of making a choice to maximize something specific.

J.J. Ruescas [00:21:46]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:21:47]:
And adapting your behavior toward that specific choice, that specific maximization. Just like you said, we're always optimizing for something, essentially at the expense of other things.

J.J. Ruescas [00:21:59]:
Right, right. What we're doing right now is at the expense of the things that we're not doing now. If we're not aware of what is the other thing, as you mentioned, 4 hours in marketing compared to even 1 hour having a great time on a conversation like this. For me, this is an optimal use of my time with you, because I admire the work that you're doing. I know that we're going to have a great conversation, and I hope that this conversation will help other people. So for me, wow, I could be doing anything else. But for me, this is an optimal.

Vision Battlesword [00:22:31]:
Use of time based on your values in this moment, your priorities in this moment, your identity, all of those things.

J.J. Ruescas [00:22:39]:
Because if I would have been the engineer that I was a decade ago, or this identity of being only an engineer, we would not even have, we would not have ever met, probably. We have ever, we have met at a business context with so many walls in between, emotional and psychological walls in between. And I was optimizing for something that at that moment, I thought it was like, this is key, I have to optimize for career, something like that.

Vision Battlesword [00:23:04]:
Yeah. This is really interesting. To me, and I'm, I feel like I'm learning a lot about what optimization really means. And it really is, it seems to me it really is about choice making. We're always optimizing, I guess in a weird sort of way, when you think about it, it's just a question of what are we optimizing for? If I choose to, let's say, indulge in comfort foods regularly, I may be optimizing for a certain kind of emotional state or other types of activities. I may be optimizing for rest if I choose to not be very active. But then I may decide that I'd actually like to optimize more toward physical strength, endurance and flexibility, in which case, I may choose to adapt my behaviors toward the improvement, or the maximization, I guess is a better word, the maximization of those priorities or those values which are important to me at that time.

J.J. Ruescas [00:23:59]:
And it's interesting that you mentioned that, because in my case, nowadays, with the identity that I have, I'm maximizing. My goal is to maximize the usage of this resource, the physiology, the psychology and my emotional resource. And what can I do with this? So there is a sense of wonder, of, okay, JJ, what else can you do? Some of the experiments or projects that I put, they suck. Nevertheless, at the end of the day, I'm like, you did it. Thank you. You put yourself there and now you learn that that's maybe not the way to go with this project, but you did it. Experiment. Good.

J.J. Ruescas [00:24:34]:
Now, being smart about experiments, right? Not to put too much, which I've done sometimes in podcasting and stuff like that, putting too many resources in one basket and then boom, going bonkers. I was such a smart experiment. Sometimes we need to do that to learn. And actually learning not only comes from failure on the experiment, it also comes from success. Because if an experiment was successful, let's go back to the example of my friend. Let's say that he realized that in 1 hour for seven days, he got three new clients for his service. Who knows? Okay. Then he's going to say, okay, what can I learn from this? And maybe he can even do not the four hour, not a 1 hour, maybe he can do 30 minutes every day and get also three other clients next week.

J.J. Ruescas [00:25:19]:
Oh, now it's getting more refined, it's getting crafted. It is. Now that's when it turns into a craftsman work, because the craftsman work, or actually, I would say that the way that our brain, our physiology is designed is to using, again, the word optimization, finding better ways with less resources to find the same output. And that is the path of artisan.

Vision Battlesword [00:25:41]:
Yeah, while you were talking, it's so funny, like, your words and my thoughts converged there right at the end, because I was just thinking about, there's something to do with optimization and leverage you just mentioned at the end, like, less input, more output. There's another way of calling that, which is leverage. And then I was also thinking about, okay, sure, optimization is about trade offs to a certain degree. We have to optimize for this. That means we're not necessarily optimizing for that. But also, I think the general consensus of how we think of optimization, it sort of means maximization in a lot of categories all at the same time. So if we think of that as like lines or tracks, that we can achieve a certain level of potential in, let's say, financial success, let's say physical strength, endurance, flexibility, general well being, general health. Let's call that mental health, psychological, emotional satisfaction, happiness, contentment, these different sort of positive emotional states, as we might describe them, creativity, ability to express ourself, ability to manifest the things that we would like to experience and see in the world, healthy, positive relationships.

Vision Battlesword [00:26:59]:
I could go on and on, but you can sort of like categorize different aspects of the human experience and then sort of see how much you're maximizing your potential in any of those given areas. I think that what we generally mean when we say optimization is raising all of those levels simultaneously to their maximum potential, and kind of seeing how actually increasing our maximization or optimization in any of those different categories actually has a positive cascading impact on the other categories as well. Right?

J.J. Ruescas [00:27:35]:
And that is, for example, in many of the personal development circles, they use the wheel of life. They have the categories. So you have health, you have relationships, you have career. And for me, I call it the pizza of life, because for me, the underlying, it's not that health is a category. Health is a platter. Well, all the other ones work. The easy way to prove that is no health, no good career, no good relationship. So health, physical health, leads to psychological health, which leads to emotional fluidity.

J.J. Ruescas [00:28:09]:
And on top of that, we can build the other ones. That's the reason I focused in my work as getting those three first, optimized those three when I'm working with a person first, when we start understanding what are their, what are the constraints that usually their intellect is putting, which because those constraints, mental constraints, software constraints, may be creating physiological and emotional constraints. So by slowly opening up, allowing the nervous system to have more of a relaxed state or a more safe feeling in a safe state, or the psychology starts changing, the emotions start changing. And it's a complex system. It's not an entire recipe. So, in that sense, when I'm working with someone, we both are co creating the experience of this person in this artistic way, seeing through experiments, what works, what doesn't work. Over the last few months, I've been working, for example, with a leader of a hospital here, training the army. The guy is highly disciplined.

J.J. Ruescas [00:29:11]:
The guy is the immaculate figure. Even the way that he portrays, the way that he walks, the way that he moves, is the immaculate figure of the american hero leader. Like this, there's a little bit of a problem. He was disconnected from emotions. So in the army, that optimized a very good outside of the army and with his family and with his now employees, it's not working well, right?

Vision Battlesword [00:29:39]:
Yeah. That's so cool. Just to notice how optimal is not the same in every context and environment. So, in other words, it's like human optimization, as we might call it. It's like a different tool for a different job. Like a hammer is optimal at striking a nail. It is totally suboptimal at turning a screw. So, yeah, if you turn yourself into a hammer specifically, then that's gonna make you optimal for certain situations and suboptimal for others.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:11]:
Is there a strategy of optimization that leads to greater flexibility and more fluid adaptation situationally and circumstantially in life?

J.J. Ruescas [00:30:22]:
Yeah. So if going back to use this analogy of the hammer, if someone has been using the hammer, and let me give you my own example. When I was working as an engineer, the way that my mind works is very strategic. There were sequences and flows, yada, yada, yada. Great for the work that I was doing in technology, terrible for interacting with humans, but I was over using my heuristic for work outside of that career that I had. So in that case, obviously, it took me years and a lot of suffering to realize that I had to drop at some point, the algorithm of strategy and processes, but not to drop its labeling as a negative trait. No, no. But instead saying, oh, I can put this tool in my toolkit again, knowing that it is there and I can use it whenever I want.

J.J. Ruescas [00:31:17]:
So it is outgrowing the tool and incorporating new tools. Because otherwise, like, if Batman in his bat belt would have only one thing that he wants to use that same thing for everything, right? It's not going to work. He needs to have a flexibility of those ones. Now, how to build that flexibility or that toolkit is individual. In the case of this man that I told you, he's highly structured, highly disciplined. Emotions are cut off. We started introducing slowly emotions. I'm not talking about, okay, I need you to cry right now for five minutes.

J.J. Ruescas [00:31:50]:
We could have done that. Those are strategies to do that. But in this case, what we did is we started slowly tracking his emotions 30 seconds, three times per day.

Vision Battlesword [00:32:00]:
That's it.

J.J. Ruescas [00:32:01]:
Awareness. So wherever we put awareness in the. Usually at the opposite of what they were doing, that starts creating flexibility or a new perspective. And now, even though he's not tracking anymore with an app that he was using, he's tracking it with his awareness, like, oh, oh, I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling sad. And he just observes that one. Right? So he's complimentary, expanding his toolkit. Now, he can still go back to discipline and being very cognitive or intellectual, but now he's acquired more flexibility. That's.

J.J. Ruescas [00:32:39]:
That's one of the easiest ways that I can start explaining how to increase the expansion of tools.

Vision Battlesword [00:32:47]:
Hmm. Does it seem that a lot of people are optimized for surviving traumatic situations, like when you're bringing up ex military veterans? But also there's certainly a very specific type of optimization that folks who go into those situations are more or less designed for. But does it seem like almost everyone kind of has that kind of conditioning?

J.J. Ruescas [00:33:17]:
Everyone vision. We don't even need to go through a traumatic situation. The nervous system is continuously optimizing for something. If, as kids, we didn't receive enough attention, neglect, at some point, maybe becoming the funny kid was bringing attention. So what was the driver optimizing for attention or gathering attention? So the nervous system learned to be funny, to be the clown of the party, because that was bringing attention, and that was a learned trait. And over the years, the person kept using the same strategy, in this case, to gain attention because they needed to get back into connection. Same thing with people pleasing strategies. They come from a point in time when that was a very optimal and functional behavior.

J.J. Ruescas [00:34:06]:
Now, over the years, that became dysfunctional, but we keep using the same hammer. So my theory is that the nervous system is continuously optimizing for something continuously. Now, once we become aware of, oh, now I get it, I can optimize for this, or do I really want to optimize for this? And becoming, as you mentioned, having the choice, having agency over what we're optimizing for, that changes everything. Now, adding a little bit on that, when you mentioned these categories, the categories of life and how we can optimize for them, at some point we don't even need to maximize all of those ones. At some point we can let them linger in maintenance mode. Some of those ones going back to the example of parent or brand new parents, their lack of sleep is impacting their lives. Once we know that they actually can go with 6 hours, spreading three sets during the day. So to give an example good enough, at some point the situation is going to change and we can go back into what was optimal, optimal for them or according to their age, what is going to be the new optimal, but finding at least maintenance, maintenance level and they becoming aware of, oh, this is maintenance level.

Vision Battlesword [00:35:21]:
Yeah, that's a really good point, again, that there's no requirement that we have to optimize or, excuse me, that we have to maximize every category that optimal for us can actually look like a certain, I have a certain level in any of these different categories, and that actually feels good, that feels comfortable, that feels optimal. And where I'd like to place my energy or my attention is in these other categories and optimize even more for them, or even just consider myself to be in an optimal state and enjoy that for a little while, perhaps. But I'm thinking also, again, back to the point about veterans and trauma and the optimization that we may come into adulthood with. Is it possible, in your opinion, to optimize your nervous system, the human nervous system, to be flexible enough to be able to have a rich, full emotional life in containers, in contexts of safety, to be maximally expressed, and then also be able to move into an emergency situation or some other situation which actually requires a different kind of response as a survival adaptation, can you be a saw and a screwdriver and a hammer, depending on the situation, can you optimize your nervous system for that level of adaptability?

J.J. Ruescas [00:36:53]:
The answer is yes. That is what is called the window of tolerance of the nervous system. Once we have a small window of tolerance, it's like having one or at most two tools, and most of them are based on survival optimization focused on survival. Now, when the nervous system starts increasing the window of tolerance we start getting into, we give ourselves a possibility to experience more pleasure and at the same time to endure more pain and starts growing and growing and growing. Now, it is not, as we said, like a staircase situation. No, no, no, it increases it. Sometimes there's too much pain and we have to contract back again. We keep walking, working, working on this, and it expands, it works, it hurts again, and we come back, it's like training a muscle.

J.J. Ruescas [00:37:45]:
When we go to the gym. Not going to give you 200 pounds of dumbbell. That is going to tear your tissues. In this case, what we do is go with the smallest one, do a few reps, feel sore, allow it to recover, and then come back in a few days with the same weight, or maybe with a little bit more. So that is when it becomes more an art than a science. We may see, obviously, the projection, but if we just go with the cold facts of the. Of the projection, and this is what we must do. We are missing the experience of connecting with oneself and understanding one when we need to get extra recovery, or when we can push even more.

J.J. Ruescas [00:38:30]:
That is more a visceral sense. Something that comes to my mind is polyvagal theory, meaning the different stages of where a nervous system is. And the stages are defined depending on the situation. You and I are right now in connection. The prosody of our voice is soothing. We are in rapporte. It feels safe space. The temperature is cool.

J.J. Ruescas [00:38:55]:
Connection state. If we would be in a situation when, okay, we need to get things going, we may go into mobilization, which could be fight or flight, either of those options.

Vision Battlesword [00:39:05]:
Or freeze.

J.J. Ruescas [00:39:06]:
Or freeze. Exactly. And then when none of those strategies work, we would retort to collapse, which that is more freezing, and stay there. So that's how the nervous system is working. Not at an intellectual level. It is designed to do that, is designed to do that. And understanding when we have been in any of those stages, provides also insight of, oh, what are our now? Our ways to go back into the next and into the next state stage, I should say. And each one of those stages has an emotional blueprint.

J.J. Ruescas [00:39:42]:
In the collapsed one, there is hopelessness, despair, numbness, isolation. In the mobilization stage, depending on the flavor, is anxiety, anger, frustration, fury, you name it. Or it could be full despair as well. And this hectic energy of trying to escape. But those emotional states, once we start understanding and also allowing the system to experience in safe spaces, starts training the system to learn that, oh, we can feel those emotions without needing to act on the emotion itself. Yeah, the neurochemistry is going to go through us. And the more that we exercise connecting with them, hopefully outside of the stressor situation. I'm not saying the stress or situation.

J.J. Ruescas [00:40:34]:
That is the ultimate test. If we mastered or another situation, or at least if we are on our way to master it. But allowing, for example, little things when we're in stage of connection, allowing those sensational emotions of come and have a way to express in a healthy way, whether it's through movement, through words through sounds or proper communication, as in authentic relating. You do that trains the system to know that those emotions are not, first of all, enemies. Second, that they're not gonna be there for too long, which provides resurgence. Yeah, it can work.

Vision Battlesword [00:41:11]:
How did you get started with training your own nervous system through suffering?

J.J. Ruescas [00:41:20]:
I didn't say, one day. I didn't say, one day, you know, we're going to do this nervous system training. It didn't happen like that. It happened at that moment. I didn't know what I didn't know, and probably the science did not have caught up. I didn't have the lexicon that I have right now, the labels. I didn't have the concepts in my mind. So I started first realizing that after.

J.J. Ruescas [00:41:43]:
I remember once I moved here to the US, I had a breakup that broke me into pieces. It shattered my identity in a second, and I didn't know how or why this thing happened. And in the tiny windows of cognitive capabilities that I had, because otherwise, I was. I was an emotional mess in those tiny windows. I thought, there has to be an answer for this. I'm not the only person who might have gone through this. And that started getting me into the path of reading more, discovering more. And obviously, every author is going to come with their own labels, their own concepts.

J.J. Ruescas [00:42:23]:
Nevertheless, by picking many of them, and not simply abiding, but one soul dogma or one soul school of thought or spirituality or personal development, it allowed me to start seeing patterns. And from those patterns, starting to understand that there are other physiological patterns in those emotional states or in those psychological traits. And I said, oh, this is so interesting. And that's when I started getting into the physiology, and the physiology started getting connected with the emotions, and the emotions started connected with picking up neuroscience and research. And so it's an emergence of many things at the same time. And the things that I know that we're talking about this moment. Who knows? Maybe in a year, I'm gonna come back and vision. Now, this is now a new framework, and this is new lexicon, right? And at that moment, I will be getting into a different identity.

J.J. Ruescas [00:43:14]:
Maybe. Maybe I'm gonna develop my own. Who knows?

Vision Battlesword [00:43:17]:
I would expect nothing less from you, JJ. I fully expect that to be the case. But this idea of optimal, as we've been talking about it, and that's very interesting. So it means a lot to me to hear you share your story of, like, how you came to, especially this nervous system optimization piece, because I know I am experiencing it. I know that so many people, everyone can benefit from this kind of personal development. But I'm also seeing in our conversation that optimal has something to do with balance. I'm reminded of this spiritual community that we're a part of. You know, this consciousness, community, new paradigm, whatever it is, there's.

Vision Battlesword [00:44:00]:
It seems that to some degree, we may be struggling with achieving that level of balance. At least I know I am. I will be vulnerable and sharing that with you. This. This balance between professionalism, the Winston wolf character, the. The character that's got it all under control. You know, I am the facilitator. I am the guide.

Vision Battlesword [00:44:25]:
I am the coach, I am the producer. I am the whatever it is. I'm the leader, I am whatever role it is that you're in, the creator and that we're not allowed. Or there's still a program floating around. It seems to me, at least in my consciousness, that we're not allowed to show vulnerability, that we're not allowed to make mistakes, that we're not allowed to have emotions, even in certain respects. And then on the counterbalancing side, there's this real drive, which I think is healthy, but also comes with its shadow side. There's this real drive to be maximally expressive, to be maximally authentic, to allow our emotions to be real and valid and true and real time, moment to moment, in terms of what it is that we're experiencing. And sometimes those things come in conflict with each other.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:20]:
Interesting, I think. And I want to discover how to balance that. I want to discover how to have functionality with vulnerability, professionalism with emotionalism. You know, I want to navigate that space. And with you, you know, I want to. I want to talk this through with you and even work this through with you in terms of what we can come up with together to help anyone else who may be feeling some of these same tensions of, okay, when is it time for me to put on my game face? And actually, it's not appropriate for me right now to share what I'm feeling, because that actually could cause a loss of confidence in this team, in this group, in this container, in this cohort, whatever it may be, versus actually, I am a human being. And it's really important for everybody to know what I'm feeling right now so that you can have an awareness of all of the energies that are at play here, which you may even be sensitive to, which you may even be picking up on, which may even create a deeper bond and more empathy and more compassion that we could all have for each other, knowing that we're all real people here and we're all doing our best and we're embodying these different roles that we have in this situation. But what do you think about that conflict that anyone may be having between authenticity, emotions and vulnerability versus professionalism, competence and that appearance of togetherness?

J.J. Ruescas [00:46:58]:
I call that the Superman problem.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:00]:
Yeah.

J.J. Ruescas [00:47:01]:
When I moved here to the US, I started quickly realizing that people incorporate offices, generalizing. Obviously not everyone, but the majority of people that I encounter at that time, they had this facade or this identity that inside of the office was one way and outside of the office was a different way. And I said, this is so interesting. It's like Clark Kent at Superman here, right? And I said, oh. And over the years, I started realizing that it is because of the condition that happens. Many people, they think that with my boss, I need to behave this way because my livelihood depends on this person or my next goals of career. And in my case, thankfully, not even here in the US. Before, I was more of the Tony Stark type.

J.J. Ruescas [00:48:00]:
It's the same guy with or without the armor. The same guy with or without the armor? Just the armor. Sometimes it just provides more tools, but the guy's the same. The same. Right. So I call it the tone historical superman situation. And in saying so, I'm referring to also I try to clarify that there is not a one single recipe. There is not a one single recipe for this.

J.J. Ruescas [00:48:31]:
But something that has helped me over the last few years to consolidate this idea is having a different operating system. So, for example, Joe Hudson, a person that I just came back to train with a couple of weeks ago from California, he has something called the Vue framework. Vue stands for vulnerability, impartiality, empathy and wonder. And this is not a technique. This is not a methodology. This is a state of the mind. V as invulnerability. He defines it, or the community defines it.

J.J. Ruescas [00:49:04]:
His community defines it as saying the thing that is true to oneself despite of the consequences. Now, that doesn't mean lashing out with people. No, that's different. Or playing the victim role. But saying, I'm right now having a hard time. I really need. I'm having this. This is what is happening, whether in any kind of level of the hierarchy that we are.

J.J. Ruescas [00:49:29]:
And being very honest in that regard, that doesn't mean that we are minimizing ourselves or using it sometimes as a strategy to achieve something. Well, I'm so. I'm so weak. Like, please don't, don't. Let's not talk about this right now. That's also manipulation. But he's saying, in this case, I feel in this way. Is that okay with you? If I come back in five minutes, let me go to the restroom, or let me go just read outside.

J.J. Ruescas [00:49:54]:
Can we have this conversation? I know it's important for you, but I'm feeling this way. Is that okay? That's different. Vulnerability. It's saying the thing that is true to oneself, regardless of the consequences. Scary thing. Very scary thing. Impartiality is. I would define it as minimizing judgment.

J.J. Ruescas [00:50:15]:
The judgment algorithm that we have this binary thinking of good, bad, it's embedded in our brain. It's embedded in our brain to see two sides of the coin. But once we start minimizing that judgment, then impartiality or discernment starts to emerge. Seeing both things as, oh, they have benefits of those two things. So even when we are in a conversation, we're in a conversation that, when we know that we are being biased or judgmental, is when we feel the tension, at least in the body, like a yemenite constriction. Like, oh, this person is trying to sell me something, or this person is trying to also get me something. So you can feel it. Even the tension in the neck.

J.J. Ruescas [00:50:53]:
In my case, I feel it in the. In the throat and on the front part of my chest. That's when I feel that I'm being judgmental. Not that the other person is doing something, but that I am using judgment in that regard. Right. Interesting. Third, empathy is being in connection with the other person in a way that I can be with you in the. I can share with you the experiences, the emotion that you're having to the best of my.

J.J. Ruescas [00:51:20]:
My ability, but that doesn't mean I'm going to slide into that. And now we were crying fully, right? It may happen naturally. As humans, we connect. Our nervous systems are designed to co regulate and empathize with each other and mirror neurons. Right? If I smile you as well, if I'm, like, more shy, someone like, oh, something is happening here, right. But empathy, as I mentioned, is not just sliding and forgetting about my own emotions and becoming one with yours. No, but instead being in the state with you, being able to connect with my own emotions and your own, and then wonder. He defines it as the state of being more into a question mindset than into the trying to find the answer, which is curiosity.

J.J. Ruescas [00:52:11]:
Curiosity is super useful when you're going to Google. You are curious about something and you want to have an answer, that's okay. But in this case, wonder is focusing more on the question itself. Not expecting an answer why I brought this up. Because the times that I practiced this one or embedded in my system, and the times that I've shared this with, especially clients or the community, that building up and the way that we relate in that terms, in that, that operating system, it simply clears up that identity, fractured identity between Clarket and Superman. And we get to two people that are trying to do the best with the resources that they have. And instead of just having one side and the other side, we start connecting into. Okay, what's optimal for both of us? Now, that is different.

J.J. Ruescas [00:53:00]:
Optimization for the greater good, instead of just optimization for a win. Zero, some, some zero ascension area.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:07]:
Wow, that's cool stuff. Where does that view framework come from?

J.J. Ruescas [00:53:13]:
Check out the art of accomplishment. The first few episodes of the podcast, they describe everything.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:18]:
Nice. Art of accomplishment.

J.J. Ruescas [00:53:20]:
Yeah, by Johannes.

Vision Battlesword [00:53:21]:
I will make a note of that and check that out myself. I am really excited about the direction this conversation has gone in that we have just arrived at the idea of collective optimization. So how does that work? What does that look like?

J.J. Ruescas [00:53:41]:
Let me go into subsystems or smaller systems. What our subsystems in the body optimizing for? Right. The skin may be optimizing for collecting everything together, getting together, and helping with sensory input from the temperature from another skin that is touching you to feel more pleasure. Who knows, right? All the tissues in the alveoli, in our lungs are optimizing for absorption of oxygen from the air. Now, in the case of collective, the question is, what are we optimizing for in terms of a collective when the optimizations are completely indifferent in dissonance? Obviously, optimization is not going to be optimal. It's not going to be productive at that point. But once we start getting focused into one single role, or in this case a similar direction, then we can all start optimizing into that direction individually to have something that is more powerful.

Vision Battlesword [00:54:43]:
Okay, well, how do we come into coherence around that? Around what is our shared optimization goal?

J.J. Ruescas [00:54:51]:
The answer that comes to my mind is what I do in bread work sessions. What I'm doing is through breathing techniques. The nervous system is getting into a coherent state between heartbeat and brainwaves. So both of them, they may be in different frequencies. The heartbeat and the brain waves are in different frequencies. When we're especially under stress or chronic stress, or we believe that we are under chronic stress, and that's how it creates a dissonance. Now, by breathing patterns, just a few minutes, we start getting both into the same pattern. Easy way to test this is with.

J.J. Ruescas [00:55:27]:
For example devices as the. What's it called then? I'm blanking with the name. It is the Hardmath Institute and the hardmath plus, which is a device that you clip on your ear and it gives you a visualization in real time of your HRB or your heartbeat and easy to test. That's also the work of Joe dispenza is doing at an individual level. Right. Once the breathing pattern is coherent, then the brain is coherent. And what is happening in bread work sessions and the bread work sessions that I'm leading is that it starts with one person at a time, but at some point the entire group is breathing at the same rate as what the entire group is getting into coherent state, maybe for that short period of time of the, of the, the session that we are going 30 minutes, 1 hour, you name it. But there is a way to feel so connected with the other person, not in a way that it is touching another one or having a conversation.

J.J. Ruescas [00:56:26]:
I would call it more in the sense that birds that are flying in flocks feel connected. That's the reason all of them turn left. All of them turn right without even a word being spoken. Right. And so there is that other sense of connection that is happening. That is when coherence, group coherence is taking place.

Vision Battlesword [00:56:47]:
Have you ever considered. So I'm guessing I know that the answer is yes. In your own life, have you ever used that technique of breathing together to help to create coherence with someone else? When you're experiencing some kind of tension or conflict or dysregulation?

J.J. Ruescas [00:57:03]:
Yeah. Especially when in tantric practices. In tantric practices or sexual connection with another person, the way that we breathe also influences the other person. And you will notice that when there's conflict between two people, their breathing patterns are different. If both of them are dysregulated, they'll be like, but at different rates and also depending on the lung capacity of the person. So that conflict that is taking place there is bringing two different dysregulated states with different breathing, similar but different breathing signatures. Now, what happens if we start. Okay, let's take a deep inhale.

J.J. Ruescas [00:57:44]:
Vision. You and I are having a conflict. And we can notice like the tension in the muscles, the breathing, like the frustration. You can even, you can, you can hear the, what I call the frustration sigh. Right now, what would happen if we. Let's take a few minutes of breathing. Let's use the nose. Inhale, nose exhale.

J.J. Ruescas [00:58:06]:
Nose starts down, regulating that state, getting both of us into a more coherent state. Individually. And from there, we can have a different conversation. We're just using physiology to address the emotional and psychological angles. And from there, once the physiology feels more relaxed, we can have a better conversation. Even though we can maybe instill in different arguments or, sorry, different sides of the argument, we can still have a better conversation than being in dysregulated states.

Vision Battlesword [00:58:43]:
So two people, let's just say, could optimize for coherence, for connection, to down regulate, to co regulate, and down regulate their nervous system if they're feeling triggered, flooded, overwhelmed by emotion. That could be a practice that two people could engage in intentionally to say, let's just breathe together for three minutes.

J.J. Ruescas [00:59:12]:
Yeah. For example. That is, for example, co regulation. Down regulation. You can also co regulate and upregulate. When someone is having sex and couple, you're going by imitating or getting into the same pattern. Oh, you're also co regulating. Amazing way to increase pleasure.

Vision Battlesword [00:59:31]:
Wow. What other thoughts do you have about optimization in general?

J.J. Ruescas [00:59:35]:
That it is an asymptotic goal. What does that mean? Mathematics or geometry? An asymptotic curve is one that it gets closer and closer and closer to one of the axes, but never touching the axis. Right. It is this curve that maybe it may start slower, slower, and then steep and steep and steep and steep, and never reaches the axis itself, the y axis, in this case, the vertical axis. And so, for me, that's also part of practical personal development. I was having this conversation at the beginning of the year with a founder of a company in Latin America, and she was telling me, but I want to become my best version. I want to become my best version. Yeah, the funny thing is that you are going to become your best version, but that is the sub optimal compared to the one that is coming once you reach the next version, the version 2.1, that is great.

J.J. Ruescas [01:00:29]:
The best version compared to the previous ones, but sub optimal to the 30. So we're never reaching our best. Always becoming the better version, but never reaching our best. So it is this paradox of optimization.

Vision Battlesword [01:00:42]:
So, optimization is like a game that never ends, because there's always a little bit more. And it's almost like Zeno's paradox. You go halfway, and then there's another halfway from there, and then there's halfway from there in that exponential increase.

J.J. Ruescas [01:01:00]:
And we can see that in nature, nature keeps iterating, keeps iterating, keeps iterating. And for me, we can take it from two angles of this game. It's like a drainy game or a fun game. I know that I'm an iteration of a human iteration. And I know that my cells are continuously iterating, dying and getting reborn. And with that identity, that body is changing. And this iteration of a human someday is going to cease to exist. Now, in the meantime, that I had this long iteration for a few decades, what can I do to also be part of nature and play the game of continuous iteration?

Vision Battlesword [01:01:36]:
So, is there something liberating in that realization that approaching optimal is like approaching perfection? It's an asymptote. You won't ever get there. But there's something freeing in that. It's like, okay, great. In that case, it's, there's no longer any pressure. Like, yes, of course I'm not perfect, of course I'm not optimal. I'm never going to be. But to your point, there can be an ongoing sense of joy and an ongoing sense of excitement in seeing a little.

Vision Battlesword [01:02:05]:
How can I go a little bit further? Can I go a little bit further? Like, how much more can I iterate and increase the maximization of my potential in whatever areas that are important to me, that are aligned to my value system? Or how can I, in increasing my optimization in one area, where can I engage that wonder sense and be delightfully surprised in the cascading impacts and how much better? I am having an experience in totally different area.

J.J. Ruescas [01:02:35]:
And as you mentioned as well, what areas I need to reduce or stop doing. So, if there is an ultimate way to optimize something, in my case, it is optimizing for enjoyment of what's happening in the moment or total acceptance. Now, enjoyment doesn't mean only happiness. Sometimes even the courageous act of enjoying the pain that someone is going through also turns the entire situation. I mean, we cannot, we are humans. We're not. Even though we are trying to chop off or cut off our emotions, and that we need to do that at some moment. Emotions are gonna come because we're continuously in an emotional state.

J.J. Ruescas [01:03:13]:
We may be in an emotion that is called relaxation right now, or curiosity. But the emotions, because our part, the emotions are fluctuating in our system. That's what create the reality that we're having now, once we start optimizing for, I'm gonna join whatever. I'm going to enjoy whatever emotion that I'm feeling. Even if it is the deepest, the saddest, the most dark emotion I've had. For me, it brings a different connotation to that, because that's acceptance. I'm going to have this emotion for a brief period of time. Why not enjoy it?

Vision Battlesword [01:03:46]:
That's really interesting, because so, to me, just breaking down the word enjoy, it has the word joy in it, which to me is a specific emotion. So if I'm feeling sadness, I'm by definition not feeling joy. But maybe that's possible to experience both at the same time or become curious.

J.J. Ruescas [01:04:06]:
Wonder about the sadness.

Vision Battlesword [01:04:08]:
Yeah, well, curiosity, acceptance, allowing of the experience, whatever that is. All of these things make sense to me. But this idea of enjoying sadness, let's say, or pain or shame, this is a new idea for me. That's very interesting. Have you personally experienced that? Like, being able to kind of overlap a sense of joy with a sense of sadness?

J.J. Ruescas [01:04:32]:
It's in my model of the world, for example, joy for me, is not an emotion in the sense that it comes up and then leaps, but it's a state. So enjoyment is, how can I keep that state going? Because another state could be depression. And you can see, even when I'm feeling happy now, it's like, how can I be depressed again? Right? So in this case, for example, grief, people that have passed away that I loved, and so on and so forth. It's like, oh, how can I allow this sensation to just let it be there and savor it? That is the word. I would use the word savor, knowing that that is part of being a human.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:15]:
That makes more sense to me. Yeah. The idea of savoring whatever the experience is, not necessarily enjoying it in the sense of being delighted or happy or content with that experience, per se, but savoring it for whatever it is, like eating a sour candy, and it's like, okay, I'm having sour right now. I'm having all kinds of maximum sour. Here it is. Or bitter or salty or whatever that may be. But just like, yeah, that's what it is. And I have it.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:49]:
And this is actually the spice of life, you know, as we say, or this is a peak experience of a certain kind. I'm getting my money's worth for this ride, right? Like, you get on a roller coaster and it's like, whoa, that's scary. And, oh, my God, I feel a little sick. And like, oh, it's like, yeah, you paid for this. That's what it is. That's why you got on. And, yeah, you might as well enjoy it. I get what you're saying, though.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:23]:
That makes sense.

J.J. Ruescas [01:06:23]:
Might as well play with words.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:25]:
That's interesting. How close do you feel to your own personal optimization goals in this moment?

J.J. Ruescas [01:06:32]:
Far away. Far away. That's the point, right? Because this identity that I am inhabiting right now and that I'm embodying also comes with a different paradigm. In this case, as an entrepreneur, I don't know what. I don't know. And obviously, the context has changed. Okay, let me ask you, vision, how many human optimization strategies do you know?

Vision Battlesword [01:06:53]:
One.

J.J. Ruescas [01:06:54]:
Yeah, you're seeing it right now, right? So, basically, I've created my own path that at some point, who knows, other people would like to go on. So it's basically become a trailblazer. I don't know what. I don't know, but I've discovered along the way. And so by doing so, I'm obviously pushing myself to limits that are completely suboptimal, I will not deny. But that doesn't mean that I am disregarding the optimization. But understanding, like, oh, I push too much. My system, my body, now I see, like, oh, yeah, sleeping at 02:00 a.m.

J.J. Ruescas [01:07:30]:
three nights per week is not good for work. How can I optimize this to allow my body to go back in time while making revenue, while delegating this to assistants? Oh, assistance, that's a great idea. Right? So that's opening up new opportunities, new ideas, things that I didn't know that they were coming. Now I can see them coming, or now, again, discovered, because I'm pushing myself beyond the limits and also connecting with people like you, other people like, oh, that's a great idea. Seeing how others are doing. So, learning doesn't only come from our own experiments, but also seeing, in the case of the story with my friend, from other people's experiments, you know, that's.

Vision Battlesword [01:08:07]:
A really good point that you just made that reflects back to an earlier part of our conversation, for me, that optimization is not necessarily the same as maximization in the sense that, like, coming back to a computer analogy or any kind of a machine, a car that is not optimal, to run the car in the red line for longer than a few seconds, for sure, if at all, right, that may represent a kind of maximization. We're maximizing rpm, we're maximizing speed, we're maximizing performance in a moment, but that's going to burn the engine out in the long run, actually optimal. There is an optimal zone of where we can run this particular machine that's optimizing for both performance and longevity in certain ways. I think that's a really important point that you just made about, you know, like, what's my optimal zone for sleep versus productivity? Where I'm maximizing not just for today, but I'm maximizing for over some period of time. But for yourself, you said there's some areas where you are optimizing more than others. What are you personally optimizing? Or what are you focusing on for your own personal optimization these days?

J.J. Ruescas [01:09:32]:
At this stage, I'm optimizing for mobility because I've been spending over the last few months too much time in front of computers. So now, okay, how do I go back into optimizing for flexibility and mobility? Because I know that when my body is flexible and movable, my ideas are flexible and movable. So it impacts creativity. Then, in terms of my business, what I'm optimizing is like, since now I have repetitive projects, which the majority of them are bread work events or workshops. So the recipe, now I got it right, and I had to go through the drill of myself figuring out what are the common steps, what's the template. Now, with the use of technology, I can templatize all of that and start delegating parts of that to a person or several people. So now I'm optimizing for reducing my time doing repetitive or minutiae tasks and delegating to people or to AI, and then focusing on creating new partnerships, or focusing on improving even the experiences itself, which is the part that I love and that no one else can replace me to do that.

Vision Battlesword [01:10:35]:
Do you have any curiosities for me?

J.J. Ruescas [01:10:37]:
I do. What are you optimizing for at this moment?

Vision Battlesword [01:10:42]:
Oh, I should have expected you to turn that question around on me. I. Productivity, creativity, balance. I think that's one of the biggest things that's been coming through for me in this conversation that's been really helpful for me, is just seeing how much about optimization has to do with balance, like what we just sort of identified there about performance and longevity. There is a sense of maximization to optimization, but it's very importantly not a maximization of one thing at the expense of all the others, or even some of the others, which are ultimately points of failure.

J.J. Ruescas [01:11:32]:
Let me ask this. Would you rather have a maximum lifespan or an optimal lifespan?

Vision Battlesword [01:11:38]:
So what does that even mean?

J.J. Ruescas [01:11:40]:
What does that mean to you?

Vision Battlesword [01:11:41]:
Okay, I see what you're. Yeah, so, right. If we're saying a maximum lifespan, but that might include many years of very, very limited life experience, let's say, or even life extension through the use of technology, but that's not providing, like a life of activity or, you know, enjoyment or. Yeah, I would happily, I think I would happily trade ten years of life extension in a 5% functional state, 5% human capacity or something for 50 years of high functioning lived experience, right? So if we're talking about optimization in that realm versus maximization, I think. I think that makes perfect sense. I think that we do tend to have programs that have to do with maximization, oftentimes that are very, very hyper specific. Maximization of financial wealth, maximization of physical beauty, but in expense of. Sure, but yes, hyper specific, right? In the sense of being exclusive, not taking into account necessarily any other factors that serve to create a complete experience.

Vision Battlesword [01:13:12]:
Or we have these kind of ideals of a perfect life, which is achieving that vertical y axis in all of these different categories of abundant, luxurious physical wealth and material wealth, and physical beauty and physical perfection, and a kind of an agelessness and maximum longevity, maybe even immortality and some sort of technologically enabled future, and just this idea of total universal joy and lack of complete absence of suffering, just all of these different things. We sort of have this ideal of this model of perfection that's on a pedestal, and we're offered that. It's like, oh, yes, this is available. This is what everyone is supposed to be dedicated toward pursuing. And then also we have these other kind of very hyper specific models of, again, pursuing what we would consider to be professional or material success, physical beauty and optimization of a very specific kind. Or perhaps there's also a form of spiritual enlightenment that's held up as kind of a form of optimization, or a kind of relationships or interpersonal life that's held up as kind of a form of optimization. But we're presented all of these different things as if, like, yes, you can have this if you sacrifice everything else for it. And I think what's coming through for me is just the importance of getting clear for yourself for me, getting clear for myself of what does an optimal balance of all of these different categories look like.

Vision Battlesword [01:15:00]:
For myself, I think that's where it's coming. That's where it's coming to.

J.J. Ruescas [01:15:03]:
Something that's coming for me is, for example, in the realm of my business. If, let's say, at an individual level, we have health, relationships, career, blah, blah, blah, right? Different areas. At a level of a business or an organization, what do we have finances, products or services. We have marketing, we have sales, etcetera, other categories. So over the last three years, for me, I hyper fixated in products and experiences. Maybe the reason. That's the reason my bread works as soon as so popular. Maybe that's the reason.

J.J. Ruescas [01:15:34]:
Because when someone, the moment that they arrive, the experience starts that moment, and until the moment they leave, and after they leave is like, whoa, now my marketing sucks, right? It's like, it's like the dude that goes to the gym and optimizes for biceps to expense of leg work. So now in my case, it's now we need to actually focus on the other one, knowing that this one is going well. Now what about doing it here? Now I'm being more strategic in the sense that for this quarter we're going to focus on product. This quarter we're going to focus on marketing. For this case we're going to work on operations. And that's also part of the experimentation and iterative process.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:19]:
Yeah, I love that as an analogy back to a person's personal life, you know, like, okay, this quarter I'm focusing on physical optimization. Next quarter I'm focusing on nervous system, emotional stuff. I think it's interesting to just kind of, first of all, there's something in what you're saying which resonates for me in the sense that we don't all necessarily prefer, and I don't want to take it to like, oh, we all have natural gifts and oh, I'm good at breath work and I'm not good at marketing or, you know, I'm good at this, but I'm not good at that. I don't really buy into that paradigm, actually. I mean, yes, I think that we have some genetically inherited natural predispositions or things that, things that express ourselves as talents and abilities. But I'm not of the opinion that we pigeonhole ourselves into this. Oh, I'm not good at math. I'm never going to be good at math.

Vision Battlesword [01:17:17]:
I do think that we can grow. I think we can change. I think. I think that we. I think neuroplasticity exists. I think that physical plasticity exists. I think that we can actually push our own boundaries into realms and build up gifts and build up skill sets in different areas if we want to and if we choose to. But there's also some natural inertia, entropy, resistance to that.

Vision Battlesword [01:17:40]:
That can be true. So I just want to acknowledge that, like, that's okay. It's okay if I don't like marketing. I think it's okay if I don't prefer sales. I do prefer creativity. There are some people who thrive on sales. There are people, some people who thrive on marketing, who thrive on whatever these different, like maybe the, you know, physical practice for me is just. It's a little bit more of a grind for me.

Vision Battlesword [01:18:05]:
Sitting on the pillow and going into meditation feels a lot thing that I look forward to and I have a lot more enjoyment of that versus going to the mat, you know, for push ups and calisthenics, and someone else has the reverse experience. I think all of that is natural and okay. And I feel that it is optimal, or it can be more optimal for us to give ourselves permission to accept and acknowledge that, to move into the areas where we do feel that we really fully thrive and flourish, push our boundaries into areas where we want to, where that makes sense. Like, yeah, I would actually really like to learn marketing. I would like to be self sufficient in that area. I'm going to spend some time building a practice, building a discipline, creating those skills and so forth. Or actually, I really don't. Actually, really don't.

J.J. Ruescas [01:18:53]:
Or the experiment could be, I'm not good at marketing, I don't want to learn marketing, but experiment could be, I'm gonna find the best partner in marketing that I can find.

Vision Battlesword [01:19:02]:
Right, exactly what I was gonna say. And so that's where I feel like we start to dabble back into collective optimization, where that's another version of creating coherence, is finding the way that we can take our natural passions, drives, talents, gifts, abilities, whatever those are, or our preferences, and our preferences, and put our puzzle pieces together into a way that creates a kind of a meta optimal scenario where it's, yeah, I love doing marketing. I would love to just have something to market. I'm not, by the idea of sitting and creating something. I'm really not. For me, that's a little bit more of a challenge. For me, there's a little bit more resistance there. But on the other hand, you give me a great product, I'm gonna blow that shit up.

Vision Battlesword [01:19:50]:
You know, like putting our pieces, our puzzle pieces together in that way. I feel there's interesting opportunities for co optimization, and I think there's a cool way of looking at that.

J.J. Ruescas [01:20:02]:
Yeah, that's how I see it. I told you, every system in our body is optimizing for something. Cardiovascular system, nervous system, respiratory system, you name it. Right? And now, are they working in dissonance or incoherence? That's the goal. And we can actually start working on that so that the entire system is working coherently. Sometimes we need to optimize for survival, sometimes we need to optimize for creativity, for co regulation, etcetera.

Vision Battlesword [01:20:33]:
Well, do you have any final thoughts on optimization that you'd like to add to the conversation?

J.J. Ruescas [01:20:38]:
This is a fun, fun drive. Even though I use the word optimization, we could be potentially used mostly in career or corporate world. I'm using it from an angle that it comes from nature in itself, and it's entrenched into something philosophical at some point. And so regardless of where the. In what context this word is being used, I would encourage the listeners, the audience, to ask themselves, what am I optimizing for? And is that what I really want to optimize for?

Vision Battlesword [01:21:12]:
It's almost like there'd be an interesting opportunity, maybe, for a life optimization assessment. Yeah, like some way of scanning the different domains of your life, the pizza slices, and just kind of identify for yourself. Like, where am I in terms of what I would consider to be optimization in these different areas? And where am I putting my attention? Where am I putting my energy now that gives me information about my own value system preferences, or where I place my sense of importance on what I clearly am optimizing for, and taking energy from one category, maybe, and moving it into another. I think that's really interesting. And then I think it's really interesting also, what you keep bringing it back to over and over again about looking at nature and just looking at the natural world and how nature optimizes and how just easy it seems, how how that coherence just seems almost automatic. Everything is this interrelated, complex system that, you know, one thing moves out of a way and another thing moves in, and other things push against each other sometimes and then find an equilibrium. And there's this constant, constant, constant process of iteration, iteration, iteration, and adaptation. Right.

Vision Battlesword [01:22:39]:
Try something different. Okay, that was not as good as the last thing for whatever it is that we're trying to achieve right now. Let's try something different. Oh, that was a little bit better. Okay, let's move in that direction a little bit more. Oh, that was a little bit better. Let's try that a little bit more in that direction. And just kind of looking at how we can apply that philosophy, as you said, comes philosophical, how we can apply that philosophy to our own lives.

Vision Battlesword [01:23:05]:
Give ourself a little bit of grace, give ourself a little bit of permission to realize that we are different, that we have different natural, perhaps gifts and predispositions and certainly preferences, but also that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It doesn't have to be like one big jump that, like you talked about with your client, where it's like 30 seconds, three times a day, just getting something started, like a blade of grass, just moving in a direction. Just. It can be very gradual, but over time, we're achieving a result that could be incredibly profound. When we look back on where we came from, a year ago or five years ago.

J.J. Ruescas [01:23:49]:
And remember, multicellular organisms were once a unicellular organism.

Vision Battlesword [01:23:57]:
Yeah. And where are we headed? Where are we headed from? Multicellular. What's the next, what is the new version of the operating system beyond multicellular?

J.J. Ruescas [01:24:12]:
What if this human cell is part of a collective that is part of the planet already?

Vision Battlesword [01:24:19]:
Yeah. We're already experiencing it, actually.

J.J. Ruescas [01:24:21]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:22]:
Yeah. That's fascinating. I feel like that is a perfect place to wrap this up. That was a beautiful conversation, J.J.. Thank you very, very much. I feel like I very much expanded my own thought process around optimization and have got a lot of things to continue to think about.

J.J. Ruescas [01:24:41]:
Likewise. Thanks for sharing your stories and for the opportunity to rent with someone that I look up to as well so much.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:49]:
Thank you. I appreciate that.