Vision Battlesword [00:00:00]:
Thanks a lot for coming to sit and have this chat with me today, Edgar. It's really nice to see you. I know it's been a while, and I feel like this is a really cool way for us to drop back in and talk about something. That's very interesting. I know. To both of us. How are you feeling?

Edgar Sanchez [00:00:17]:
Feeling magical. I was practicing some magic earlier today and allowed that to be my mindfulness meditation practice. So that was great.

Vision Battlesword [00:00:31]:
Fantastic. Fantastic. I'm feeling enlightened at the moment, or as actually a new friend of mine would say, lightened, because we don't really need the in or the n or the ill that we put on the front of words. Oftentimes, like illuminated can just be luminated. Or lightened. So I'm going to say that instead I feel lightened at the moment. Who are you, Edgar Sanchez?

Edgar Sanchez [00:01:00]:
Yeah. I believe that who I am is at my core, because I'll start from the core is that I am infinite, unconditionally loving intelligence from my core and a unique expression of infinite loving intelligence, just as everyone else is. And to be more specific, I believe that in terms of an archetype, I see myself as a holistic visionary champion. Yeah, it's an archetype that doesn't really exist in modern circles, but it's like it's something that resonates, you could say, with the hero in the hero's journey. And also being inclusive of that holistic means being open to sharing the journey with others and collaborating in ways that serve the greatest good of myself and everyone simultaneously.

Vision Battlesword [00:02:00]:
A holistic visionary champion, Edgar Sanchez. Well, thanks for stopping by to have a sacred conversation today. It's really awesome to talk to you. Like I said before, this topic, we were chatting on the phone earlier and this topic came up and I said, okay, stop, stop. We gotta do a recording on this one because it was just getting so juicy and interesting. And the topic, the specific word that you chose to encapsulate our topic is alchemy. Does that still sound like a fun thing to explore?

Edgar Sanchez [00:02:33]:
Yes, definitely.

Vision Battlesword [00:02:35]:
Awesome. I'll start where I always start. What is alchemy?

Edgar Sanchez [00:02:40]:
So, alchemy is the art and science of transmuting lower frequencies into higher frequencies, because that's what transmutation means. It's the raising of the frequency of something. And when the frequency of something raises, it will generally transform depending on the amount that the frequency raises. So that would be an example of. That would be guilt and shame to higher states of, for example, love, and then even higher states of peace. And authenticity. And those higher states would represent in alchemy, the sun and guilt and shame would represent, lead to the alchemists, who were really in tune with the spiritual.

Vision Battlesword [00:03:28]:
Okay, so, yeah, I think you're going where we both thought we were going to go, which is kind of going back to the origins of alchemy, which has its roots in occult, esoteric philosophy, and wisdom and hermetic wisdom. Or really back to ancient Egypt and even before what we would consider Egypt, where we're talking about alchemy or we're talking about transmutation. We're not talking about what we imagine as chemistry today, meaning actual chemical elements, like transforming one into the other. But what you're referring to is that these are actually metaphors for an internal transformation or an energetic, vibrational transformation, or mental alchemy, we might call it. Is that what you're getting at when you're talking about guilt and shame being lead and then the pinnacle, love, I guess, being. You said the sun, is that equivalent to the element gold?

Edgar Sanchez [00:04:28]:
Yes. And in terms of the Hawkins scale, the scientists, certain scientists figured out that there's an even higher frequency beyond, like, the highest states within the Hawkins scale, which is the frequency of authenticity. And that's also represented by the sun as well. Especially, like, the more there is a frequency of authenticity, the more the inner sun within us is shining its inner lights.

Vision Battlesword [00:04:58]:
Okay, let's take it one piece at a time and kind of break it down here. So what is the Hawkins scale?

Edgar Sanchez [00:05:03]:
The Hawkins scale is a scale that has measurement of different frequencies. I forgot what they used to measure the frequencies. But guilt and shame is at around 200 to 20. It might be hurts.

Vision Battlesword [00:05:21]:
I think it hurts.

Edgar Sanchez [00:05:22]:
Okay. Yeah, so it's that. And then it keeps going up depending on how high those frequencies are. So courage is definitely higher. And then I think after courage, it's neutrality. After neutrality, it's like love, and then gratitude is higher appreciation, and then you get to peace, and then ultimate flow. Or I think it's dao, something like that. And that's at, like, 900.

Edgar Sanchez [00:05:48]:
And is the highest according to the Hawkins scale, at least. And the Hawkins scale comes from a book called Power Versus force. And I forget the author, but it's referenced a lot by a lot of people who talk about manifestation and raising your vibration.

Vision Battlesword [00:06:05]:
Got it. So vibration is measured. I think Hertz is equivalent to cycles per second, if I'm not mistaken. I could be getting that wrong. But I do think, at the very least, vibration generally is measured as cycles per second. And what we're saying is that certain emotional states are all of these things that we're talking about emotional states? Because I heard you talk about guilt and shame, and then I heard love, but I also heard other things like courage and peace or flow. So I'm just trying to understand. I think I've seen the Hawkins scale at least represented as some sort of a chart or diagram or something that I've looked at before.

Vision Battlesword [00:06:49]:
And I've always kind of had a little bit of this question in my mind, is, are these all the same type of thing? And what exactly is it that we're measuring here? Meaning, are these intended to all represent emotional states, in your opinion?

Edgar Sanchez [00:07:05]:
Yeah, I think they do represent emotional states, and it's also, on a deeper level, it's states of consciousness. I see how states of consciousness are mirrored by correspond to the emotional state that we're on.

Vision Battlesword [00:07:21]:
I like that. Okay. Yeah. So maybe we can talk about states of consciousness, and emotion is a component of our overall state of consciousness.

Edgar Sanchez [00:07:33]:
Yeah, I would say emotions help us. Another way to describe emotions is like, the frequencies that we're feeling, and those help us understand where or what kind of state of consciousness that we're on.

Vision Battlesword [00:07:48]:
Is frequency the same as vibration? Are those two words to the same thing, or are they different?

Edgar Sanchez [00:07:52]:
For now that we can say that, yes, they are. Honestly, I haven't really contemplated what the difference is, but I'm sure there we can discern a difference between those.

Vision Battlesword [00:08:05]:
What about oscillation versus vibration? That came up in another conversation I was having with someone where a distinction was actually made between the two things, that they're not the same, but I still haven't really been able to wrap my mind around that. To me, they seem like they are the same, but what are your thoughts on that?

Edgar Sanchez [00:08:22]:
From my perspective, oscillation relates to when we're oscillating from different states of consciousness, where if we have a specific pattern of experiencing a lot of fear in relation to relationships, or it could be like our financial situation, and what we want is to manifest a better version of where we want to be. How that relates to alchemy and manifestation, which to me go hand in hand, is that sometimes if the fear comes up and we treat it as something that is real, but at the same time we're trying to manifest the ideal lifestyle at the same time. I would say that that is an example of oscillating from where we want to be to where we don't want to be. That's what I think oscillation refers to.

Vision Battlesword [00:09:11]:
Yeah, no, that's helpful. I think from a scientific perspective or an electrical point of view, I think we talk about oscillators, or we talk. And also in physics, I think we talk about oscillators and oscillation sometimes being synonymous with wavelength or vibration or frequency. There's all of these different words that it's hard for me to distinguish one from the other when I'm just thinking. Like, what I think in terms of sometimes is pictures. And so I see in my head a sine wave. That's my mental image of a vibration or an oscillator or a frequency or a waveform. They're all kind of the same thing to me in the way that they manifest, to use your word, that you used a moment ago in my mental landscape.

Vision Battlesword [00:10:04]:
So maybe for now, for the purposes of our conversation, does it make sense that we just call them all the same thing? Acknowledging the other connotation of oscillation that you brought up, which I think is important to our conversation as well, that is to say, a rhythmic transition from one state to another. So, like, for example, we could have an oscillation between different frequencies, such as guilt and shame versus love. Back and forth between those two states could be considered an oscillation, but also. Right, it has this other meaning as well, which is almost synonymous with frequency. And then also, when I'm thinking about frequency, I'm thinking, that does mean the same thing as vibration, just simply because if we're measuring vibration as cycles per second, that is the definition of a frequency, meaning how frequent. How frequent does the peak of the waveform occur equals the rate of vibration. So that would be the frequency. All right, sorry.

Vision Battlesword [00:11:10]:
Thanks for your patience while I walked myself through all of that.

Edgar Sanchez [00:11:14]:
But it seems like frequency relates to the specificity of the vibration. To me, it seems like that word relates to the specificity. Okay.

Vision Battlesword [00:11:24]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, if we think of, like, a frequency on a radio, we tune. A channel on a radio is also referred to as a frequency, but that's also synonymous with a number of hertz, which is to say, a rate of vibration. So I don't know. I think we're all just kind of going in a circle with semantics.

Edgar Sanchez [00:11:45]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:11:46]:
I want to come back to the word alchemy, which is where we started from, though, and defining that. So in your original definition, the first thing that came up for you was transmutation or transformation. I think both of those words came up. I want to just touch on real quickly the definition that we looked up before we started the actual recording of our conversation where we discovered that the word alchemy contains the word chem, which, if spelled k h e m, which the dictionary actually says is the root of the word, refers to the ancient egyptian civilization that even perhaps precedes the one that we know of from archaeological records and evidence and things which blew my mind because I had never made the connection between chemistry, alchemy, and chem, the place, the civilization before. So, anyway, I just want to come back to the beginning of step one and working our way up from there. Tell me more about what alchemy means to you.

Edgar Sanchez [00:12:53]:
Alchemy, to me, is a form, like, it's an art and a science of playing with. I think playing is a key word. Playing with the frequencies of our own emotions in artistic ways that allows us to discover the inner light within, especially more challenging emotions, to discover the beauty within. Yeah, negative emotions are things that feel very unpleasant, and through that process, realize and awaken to our power by reclaiming the consciousness that was, you could say, like, stuck there and continually creating that within the different parts of our being. So that could be, like, within patterns of trauma from the past or. Yeah, any type of, like, negative experiences from our past that would happen in cycles at different moments of our lives, the more we can immerse our consciousness and awareness into those places and have fun with it and see the beauty within it, we can realize how we can transform those aspects of ourselves through love, ultimately. And love, I think, is also another key word with alchemy.

Vision Battlesword [00:14:13]:
Hmm. Okay. When you said a minute ago that our consciousness can get stuck in places, but then through alchemy, we can reclaim that consciousness. Can you expand on that a little bit more? Like, where, first of all, how does consciousness get stuck? And where does it get stuck before we talk about how to get it back?

Edgar Sanchez [00:14:33]:
Yeah, that's a good question. So the reason I believe consciousness gets stuck is kind of like when people have cycles of worry, their mind will keep continually create these frequencies of fear and worry and stay in those cycles, and sometimes those will be cycles that people are consciously aware of. But those cycles also exist subconsciously and unconsciously, not just in our own personal subconscious or unconscious, but also within the collective. And we can see that in how the events, like negative, lots of negative events that are playing out in the world, are a result of things that were suppressed, that were really dark and evil and negative, that were kind of kept in secret within the collective unconscious, are now coming to the surface and almost revealing themselves because of the light of consciousness. Is witnessing it more and more, and it's like freaking out the elite. So, so they're like, they're almost like panicking and trying to get people to feel more fear through the things that they're doing more and more. And so, well, there's perspective on it.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:50]:
There's a whole rabbit hole we could go down.

Edgar Sanchez [00:15:52]:
Yeah, that's another rabbit hole.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:53]:
Maybe we'll save that for like the third half of the show.

Edgar Sanchez [00:15:55]:
Yeah, let's do that.

Vision Battlesword [00:15:58]:
But for now. Yeah, just coming back to. So when you're saying consciousness gets stuck, what you're referring to is it gets stuck in a loop. It's looping. It's oscillating in a way or trapped in a specific vibrational state that it's sort of locked into. Is that kind of what you're saying?

Edgar Sanchez [00:16:18]:
Yeah. And that also refers to manifesting, because in a lot of manifestation circles where they've gotten esoteric with it, they realized that we're always manifesting. We can't not be manifesting. It's like breathing because of how our awareness is always projecting itself multidimensionally into the world. And that'll take a little bit more explaining to really understand. But it's the structure of, you could say the fractal structure of our consciousness that is creating the dream that we're experiencing at every moment and then through the past and through the future, because that is another rabbit hole that we can get into more if you want.

Vision Battlesword [00:17:01]:
No, that's the rabbit hole. That kind of started this whole thing when we were talking the other day on the phone. That was where things got so fascinating and interesting for me that I really wanted to sit down and do this in a structured way and really think our way through it and expand on it. When you started getting into that fractal and holographic theory of consciousness, that was what really piqued my interest in curiosity. But let's continue to see if we can build our way up to that and just start from. You've used a few different terms here. I just want to make sure that we're putting all of these puzzle pieces together in the appropriate way in terms of how you're thinking about things. So the terms that have come up so far that I've recognized as alchemy, transmutation, transformation, but then also manifestation, consciousness and awareness.

Vision Battlesword [00:17:56]:
I feel like all of these words mean certain things and they're all important somehow to our conversation. What do you mean by manifestation?

Edgar Sanchez [00:18:06]:
Manifestation. So I have a metaphor that comes from Alan Watts that can help us really understand manifestation, how it relates to all the other concepts that you mentioned, especially alchemy. Yeah, so the metaphor, it'll take about a minute or two minutes to share.

Vision Battlesword [00:18:26]:
Dude, we got all day.

Edgar Sanchez [00:18:27]:
Let's do it. But I think you're gonna love this because of how there's an esoteric loop to it that's really beautiful, I'm sure. Or I imagine you might have heard of this, but it starts with the question, if you could dream any dream you wanted a dream, what would you dream? And let's say that you could dream 75 years of dream time within 8 hours of sleep every night, what would you dream? Right? So you'd probably dream of living the best life, your best life, fulfilling all your fantasies, having the best food, traveling, the best sex, all the best things that you can conceive of or imagine all the pleasures. And then after a couple nights of 75 years of dream time each night, you'd probably want to change things up a little bit. You'd probably want to go on adventures where you go on heroes journeys, saving people and going up against enemies and opponents and testing your skills, improving your skills in these dreams and experiencing fear and apprehension sometimes, but knowing that you're always going to win because you're the infinite dreamer, in this case, this metaphor, because you're the dreaming. And in dream you want to dream. And then after a couple nights of 75 years of dream time each night, you'd probably want to make it even more interesting, where you'd want to forget that it's a dream. So that when you feel fear and anxiety, it feels real.

Edgar Sanchez [00:20:09]:
Because you'd want to test yourself and see if you can handle it, knowing that you're just going to wake up eventually. And then because you're forgetting that it's a dream, you'd also want to hide your power away from yourself to see how much you can handle. So that when you feel like a victim of your situation, it feels like you really are. And so you'd probably keep having those kinds of dreams, of testing yourself. And eventually you get to the point where you're dreaming this life, this exact life that you're dreaming here now. Today, out of the infinite multiplicity of dreams you could have, you chose to dream this dream here now. And so manifestation. One perspective on it relative to this metaphor is that it's the process of remembering that you can dream or manifest any dream you want.

Edgar Sanchez [00:21:06]:
And how that relates to alchemy is that the hiding away of our power is by putting it into the negative quote unquote negative circumstances and the meanings we're giving the negative meanings we're giving those circumstances. And reclaiming the power is reclaiming our conscious awareness and frequencies that you could say, got stuck in those loops of as the infinite dreamer. We're pretending that those things are real, those negative experiences are real, and realizing that through the process of awakening from the dream, reclaiming the power so that we can dream our best life ultimately. And that's the alchemical process of getting to those frequencies and states of consciousness where we already are living those beautiful experiences that we want.

Vision Battlesword [00:21:57]:
When I first heard that Alan Watts, I don't know, framework, however you want to think of it, metaphor, as you call it. When I first heard that, I was like, this makes the most sense of anything I've ever heard in my life. As far as an explanation of our reality, as far as an explanation of this experience that we have. It's so beautiful and so poignant, and it's just. I don't know, it's so hopeful in a way, or just, I guess it's both empowering and comforting somehow, at the same time, to me, anyway. So I really like that a lot. But let me ask you, I mean, if the point is that we come here to have fun and make the game hard on ourself, because we've already had billions of years of whatever is the maximum pleasure that we can imagine, and then everything up to this point of how can we make it more interesting and edgy for ourselves than, well, what's the point of alchemy? Or why even pursue raising our vibration if the point is to come here and have the experience of other states and things that are out of control and things that aren't comfortable and things that are even painful, or things that we pretend that we're not choosing for ourself?

Edgar Sanchez [00:23:20]:
That's a good question. I think the answer lies in the. As we tune into what we truly are at our core, like our inner truth and ultimately our spirit, the true core of who and what we really are, which is infinite love and how that relates to consciousness. It's almost like they're the same thing. My definition of love is consciousness recognizing itself. And that ultimately helps us center ourselves into deeper states of consciousness, which is also love. So it's like they start to, the meanings of consciousness and love seem to start to intertwine at those points the closer we get to our truth. I truly believe that it's the nature of consciousness, which to me is the same thing as spirit.

Edgar Sanchez [00:24:05]:
And I'll get into why that is. It's the nature of spirit and consciousness to want to evolve, to want to grow and evolve and experience greater states of itself in new ways. That can only happen through the challenges or because of the challenges of negative states and negative circumstances. And it's in the process of how when artists, musicians, artists, even painters, whatever kind of artists, after experiencing really challenging times in their life, like heartbreak, for example, that's when it seems like they're the most creative. And that's a perfect example of alchemy, because what's happening is that the infinite dreamer is seeing an opportunity to experience something completely new and create something completely new. And I think that's what the purpose of alchemy is. It's to just create more art and have fun with it.

Vision Battlesword [00:25:05]:
Huh? Okay. My friend the Mandarin man and I have been talking a lot about the earth game and why we're here and why we like this and what we're doing with this experience and all of that, and came up with a different metaphor, which is that this whole existence, this frame of reality, is an escape room that we put ourselves in, which is kind of like the Alan Watts metaphor as well. But it helps to, I guess, identify a directionality of the goal in the same way that you did. That is to say, growth, evolution, the creation of art, heading towards love consciousness, re recognizing itself and all these things that you said. And that's kind of the escape, that's kind of solving the puzzles, unlocking the locks, finding the clues, putting it all together until you can finally unlock the door and leave, leave the room, go back to source. But it's a game. It's meant to be fun. We're here to challenge ourselves, or we've put ourselves into a challenging situation so that we can have the experience of overcoming that challenge or growing beyond it, or maybe, like you said, just having a unique set of artistic tools, if we imagine this certain set of constraints and challenges and life experiences and opportunities that have been presented to us in this life as, like, our artistic paints and paintbrushes or sculptors tools, or all of the different things that we can use to create our art with, and this life is our art piece, whatever we chose to do with this assortment of gifts that we've been given, where we can look at all of our experience as different types of gifts, and then finally just imagine, like Houdini or some other sort of stage magician, allowing themself to get bound up in a straight jacket just for the challenge and just for the pleasure of figuring out how to wriggle themself out of it.

Vision Battlesword [00:27:22]:
It's kind of like what we've done by incarnating in this plane, in these forms. Does that resonate for you in terms of what you think of with alchemy and manifestation, all the things you're talking about?

Edgar Sanchez [00:27:34]:
Yes, and I would say there's more to it.

Vision Battlesword [00:27:37]:
Tell me more.

Edgar Sanchez [00:27:38]:
So the aspect of where there's more to it relates to how it's also a mystery. And I've gotten into states where it feels a little scary to notice how mysterious the ultimate or infinite intelligence is and how also beautiful it feels to allow myself to be open to whatever can happen at any moment. And that also relates to how, or the mystery also relates to any conception or ideas that we have about how reality is. It's always going to be true and false simultaneously. And there can always be new and empowering perspectives on reality. It's possible we can't even conceive of right now. I think that's part of the game that the infinite Dreamer is playing through us, or source.

Vision Battlesword [00:28:36]:
Yeah, it's both a puzzle and a mystery. It's likely that we don't give ourself all the information that we would actually even need to solve the mystery in this lifetime. But that's also part of the fun.

Edgar Sanchez [00:28:50]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:28:51]:
Is that there will always be something hidden, there will always be something that we. Where we get to speculate or make up our own meaning, or that we just get to accept that we will never know as part of this whole escape room game. That's fun. I just want to drop in also dialing back again to the word alchemy real quick, that you brought up the idea of art. And so it jogged my memory that when we were looking up the definition of the word alchemy in my special dictionary, the first acknowledged use of the word goes all the way back to 300 ad, to a decree made by the roman emperor Diocletian, which the decree itself is nothing particularly important, but the meaning of the word in that decree, the best extraction of that meaning is literally egyptian art. The word alchemy means egyptian art, which I just think is super fascinating. Again, going back to that word chem, meaning that ancient egyptian civilization. Well, I guess I want to come back to all of these different words that we're working with then.

Vision Battlesword [00:29:58]:
So after we've kind of had that little, that little side discussion, can you bring it back around to me and just give me a clean definition of manifestation in the context of alchemy? What is manifestation?

Edgar Sanchez [00:30:10]:
Manifestation is the art and science of causing change in our internal and external worlds in conformity with the will, by using supernatural, metaphysical and psychic means.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:26]:
Cool.

Edgar Sanchez [00:30:27]:
I like that.

Vision Battlesword [00:30:29]:
Well, that, I think, is a great segue, because the word change makes me think of both transmutation, where I think the word mutation really means change, and transformation, which we usually think of as the process of change, or a way of talking about the process of change. So both of those words have also come up. So let's take the next step. What does alchemy have to do with transmutation?

Edgar Sanchez [00:30:56]:
My mind started to go into. When you asked that, my mind started to think about how the alchemists saw three main types of change in nature. The first type of change is cyclical. So it's like day and night, the seasons, the phases of the moon, etcetera. Those are the cyclical changes that alchemists would see in nature, or the movement of the planets as well. And then the second type of change they would see in nature relates to growth. So the growth of plants, animals, etcetera, mostly in life forms, is where you get growth. And then finally, the third type of change is the one that they focused on the most, which is the change that comes from transformation.

Edgar Sanchez [00:31:42]:
And the main metaphor for transformation that the alchemist talked about was the transformation of the caterpillar into the butterfly through the vessel, or the alchemical vessel of the cocoon. Yeah. In terms of how that relates to us and the type of change that alchemy has to do with and how that relates to transmutation. Is that transmutation, a simple definition of it, is the raising of the frequency of something from a lower state to a higher state. It's like the most simple definition of transmutation. And so the caterpillar, to the alchemists, represented the element of lead, which the symbol of lead is also the same symbol of Saturn in astrology, because astrology and alchemy were the same in certain ways to the alchemists, like, they used both at the same time. And then the gold is the butterfly. So the transformation of the lead into the gold.

Edgar Sanchez [00:32:48]:
So that also corresponds to Saturn being the furthest planet from the sun that the alchemists could see, because they couldn't really see Neptune or Uranus or Pluto. So to them, that was the furthest planet. And then that the different planets in between were the different stages of transformation from one state to another, to finally get to the center, which is like a reference or metaphor to the center of our being. And you could say it's like a macrocosmic fractal that relates to us as a human, where the sun is the heart, and. Yeah. The same symbol for the sun is the same symbol for gold and alchemy, and also. Yeah. The state of the butterfly, basically embracing our authenticity, our authentic destiny, which is the destiny of the caterpillar, is to be the butterfly.

Vision Battlesword [00:33:42]:
Hmm. Yeah. I want to just add on to that, that when we were looking up the word alchemy in the dictionary earlier, what it actually said, you said astrology and alchemy. You said astrology and alchemy were the same. What the dictionary actually said was that astronomy and chemistry were the same, which is kind of saying the same thing, but kind of not. Yeah, but it's all very, very interesting to me. I had never. That was a new one for me, the idea that those two sciences were considered the same.

Vision Battlesword [00:34:19]:
But then when you point out the symbols for chemical elements being the same as the symbols for planets, and then you can certainly go down a whole rabbit hole of noticing all the references to the sun that show up in all different sciences, as well as spirituality. There's more to this than what we've been taught, I think, in our traditional education. So this is all very interesting. So what you're also talking about here is the fractal nature of the macrocosmic world that we live in, particularly the solar system, and the equivalence to the orbits of the planets around the sun to different aspects of our being that center around our core, which is like our own internal sun. Is that right?

Edgar Sanchez [00:35:11]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:35:12]:
And so now bring all of this back to transmutation for me, back to kind of what you were saying at the beginning of the conversation, about how the alchemists may not have been actually talking about when they're talking about turning lead into gold, for example, or base metal into a more precious metal. They might not have actually been talking about physical chemistry in the way that we think of it today, in the literal sense of converting one element into another. But they may have been talking about something spiritual, or they may have been talking about something internal to the human, an internal transformational process. Is that what you're saying?

Edgar Sanchez [00:35:52]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:35:53]:
Tell me more.

Edgar Sanchez [00:35:54]:
And so those ideas are talked a lot about by Carl Jung, especially where he studied a lot of alchemy for many, many years. And that was his conclusions were that the alchemists, who really knew what they were doing, were actually talking about a spiritual process of transformation. And he could see that by deciphering his own dreams and through his own clear cognizance and receiving messages and his own genius. That's like what he started to discover in the archetypal transformations that were happening with his clients and how he would help them and how that would relate to their own dreams. And he started to see patterns in the metaphors that the alchemists used in their own texts to the metaphors that were happening in his dreams and the dreams of his clients. And he would see the progression of his clients going from a saturnian lead state of guilt and shame in a certain area of their lives to finally realizing their authentic truth in relation to that specific area of their lives that was once in a state of lead. And the state of lead, I'll say this, too, is that. And how it relates to the solar system and the alchemical perspective on the solar system is that alchemical lead is a metaphor for how we're putting our power outside of ourselves.

Edgar Sanchez [00:37:23]:
So much of it is going and hiding it way far away from ourselves, as far as Saturn, basically. And then reclaiming it is like realizing that the power is within us, which is the sun, which is the core of the solar system, which is a metaphor for the heart as well.

Vision Battlesword [00:37:43]:
Hmm. So lead. So converting gold into lead is a metaphor for outsourcing our power or externalizing it or distancing ourself from it, from our own power. Way early in the conversation, you said something that I wanted to take a note of, and now seems like a good time for me to bring it back up again. You mentioned something about power versus force. Tell me more about that.

Edgar Sanchez [00:38:13]:
So that's the title of the book, and it seems like it relates to how most people use willpower to achieve their goals. So that would relate to force. Trying to force things to happen, to trying to. Using the concept of trying, which in hypnosis is a great way to get someone to fail. So after making suggestions, try to open your eyes, and they'll fail, because it causes people to use more energy than is necessary and also using that energy in inefficient and ineffective ways. That's what the word try does.

Vision Battlesword [00:38:48]:
That reminds me of a very wise saying by a spiritual master by the name of Yoda, which is do or do not. There is no try. And the concept of trying also makes me think of the chinese finger trap.

Edgar Sanchez [00:39:05]:
You know what I mean? I have not heard.

Vision Battlesword [00:39:07]:
Do you know what a chinese finger trap is?

Edgar Sanchez [00:39:09]:
Is it where it's like two fingers?

Vision Battlesword [00:39:11]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a woven tube.

Edgar Sanchez [00:39:15]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:39:16]:
It's a tube made of woven strips, where the trick is that once you've put your fingers into it, if you try to pull them apart, you put two index fingers into two ends of the tube. And if you try to pull them apart, because of the nature of the weave and the friction of your fingers on the inside of the tube, it will only tighten. The harder you pull, the tighter the grip is. And so it's a finger trap, because if you don't know the trick, then you can't get your fingers out, because your natural impulse is to just pull, pull them out. But the trick to it is you have to push them in, because by pushing them in, you reverse the dynamics of the weave such that it causes the tube to expand. And then you can very gently slide your fingers out once the diameter has expanded. So that's what was reminded to me of when you're talking about in a hypnosis or really in any sort of experience in life, where it seems like the harder we try sometimes the more resistance we actually create. It's like equal and opposite force.

Vision Battlesword [00:40:29]:
The more force we put in, there's an equal and opposite force that will oppose us. And then sometimes we have to do the opposite of that, which is not try or relax or achieve flow or something like that in order to get the thing that we want.

Edgar Sanchez [00:40:47]:
Yeah, and that also reminds me of a chinese saying, and this relates to power versus force and the chinese finger trap and the word try, because the chinese saying goes, give evil nothing to oppose, and it will disappear by itself. And that always kind of was always felt pretty mysterious to me. Like, what does that even mean? And it seems like it relates to the surrender concept of the more you can love and accept it, the more it'll start to, like, try to project evil in other places, but then it can't because it needs resistance to exist, it seems. And then that relates to trauma and us trying to make something happen, but it's, like, not manifesting because we're, like, giving it too much importance. So that could be, like, quote unquote evil in our lives.

Vision Battlesword [00:41:41]:
Man, that makes so much sense to me, though, you know, especially, like, in relationships, in relationship conflict and communication, that saying, give evil nothing to oppose, and it disappears. Just makes so much sense to me because that's almost a perfect description of nonviolent communication. When you start practicing nonviolent communication, it's like the tension or the conflict just dissolves because there's nothing there for a conflict to latch onto or to attach to. It's like a perfectly frictionless surface, and it just slides away. Okay, so is power like gold, like the sun, and then is force like lead, like Saturn?

Edgar Sanchez [00:42:30]:
Yes. And the reason why, too, is because within that book, I think that's where the Hawkins scale first appeared. And because. Yeah, it was David Hawkins, I believe, is the author. So that's why they call it the Hawkins scale.

Vision Battlesword [00:42:45]:
So Hawkins wrote power versus force, you think?

Edgar Sanchez [00:42:47]:
Mm hmm.

Vision Battlesword [00:42:48]:
Okay.

Edgar Sanchez [00:42:48]:
Yeah. So power in the Hawkins scale is, of course, the higher frequencies, which is what allows people to manifest reality, reflections of reality that basically reflect those frequencies, which the higher frequencies are, of course, love and flow and peace. And that it's like, the chart is very simple, but in relation to our own lives, it's so much more multi dimensional because there's so many different aspects of our lives and different patterns within so many patterns within even just one area of our lives, like relationships, finances, health, etcetera. So that's something to keep in mind, because people think it's like, oh, it's just your total frequency in general, but there's this multi dimensional, multifaceted aspect of our being that I feel like is a lot of the times forgotten, which is why it can be. In order to really understand these concepts that I'm talking about, it really helps to have a consistent practice of alchemy in a way that's unique to you. And it's also fun, ideally.

Vision Battlesword [00:44:03]:
Cool. Okay. We're going to come back to that practice of alchemy, but I still think there's a couple of terms that would be interesting to explore, because they keep coming up regularly as we're talking about things. And so the other two, I want to differentiate a little bit, is consciousness and awareness. You've used those terms a couple of times as well. I don't know. Maybe a good place to start is what's the difference between the two?

Edgar Sanchez [00:44:28]:
I believe that awareness is. Oh, this is pretty tricky. What came to me is that awareness is like the. Almost like the laser of light. And then consciousness is the spotlight. So you could think of it as a target, where the center of the target is the awareness, and then the rest of it is consciousness.

Vision Battlesword [00:44:54]:
Okay. What's the light source?

Edgar Sanchez [00:44:57]:
The light source, I believe, is. Yeah. Pure consciousness.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:00]:
Okay. Is that. So does that shine out in all directions, or does that shine in some specific direction, like a spotlight?

Edgar Sanchez [00:45:07]:
It shines out in all directions.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:10]:
Okay.

Edgar Sanchez [00:45:11]:
Yeah. Like the sun.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:13]:
Got it. Okay.

Edgar Sanchez [00:45:14]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:15]:
And then awareness is, like, where we can focus that light very specifically, like the target. Like what you're talking about.

Edgar Sanchez [00:45:25]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:25]:
Okay, cool. Got it. So sometimes I like to think of I use that same metaphor in how I think of the construction of consciousness and manifestation and experience and all this stuff as well. And so sometimes I like to think of the focusing lens. I like where you're going with this. I haven't added awareness into my model yet, actually. So this is a cool little side quest for me in the moment. But I like to think of the focusing lens as intent.

Vision Battlesword [00:45:58]:
What do you think about that?

Edgar Sanchez [00:46:00]:
Yeah, that resonates. Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:46:02]:
So, like, if consciousness is shining out, we can put a lens in front of it, which is intent. And then intent takes that light and focuses it into a very specific target, which we could call awareness. Does that work for you?

Edgar Sanchez [00:46:17]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:46:17]:
Cool. Okay. I like it. Great. But it sounds like also consciousness is starting to feel a little bit synonymous with the sun or with that core of our internal power. Or is that something different?

Edgar Sanchez [00:46:34]:
I feel like it's the same.

Vision Battlesword [00:46:36]:
Okay.

Edgar Sanchez [00:46:37]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:46:38]:
Well, then what is will?

Edgar Sanchez [00:46:39]:
I believe Will is. Oh, will. From my definition, right. I think it relates to intent. I feel like it can be synonymous with intent in my definition of manifestation, which to me, manifestation is the same as magic. M a G I C K, where the definition that I wrote down comes from Aleister Crowley. And he's so controversial. He was very curious.

Edgar Sanchez [00:47:12]:
He was very crazy. He did a lot of positive, loving things and negative things. But his definition is really beautiful, where his definition for magic was the art and science of causing change in conformity with the will. And then I took his definition and added some things. And basically, magic and manifestation are the same thing to me, like the practice of magic, the practice of manifesting same thing. I forgot your question, by the way.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:42]:
That's okay. I was just asking you to define will.

Edgar Sanchez [00:47:45]:
Will. Okay. Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:47:46]:
Because that came up as a part of the definition of manifestation. Manifestation equals change via will. Then we define three different types of change, which is also super fascinating that I kind of want to circle back to at some point. But to me, I'm wondering if Will is connected more to force, where intent and or consciousness is connected more to power.

Edgar Sanchez [00:48:12]:
Yes.

Vision Battlesword [00:48:12]:
Like, could we say that maybe will is the direction of force, whereas intent is kind of the focusing of consciousness as a way of differentiating?

Edgar Sanchez [00:48:21]:
I would say that.

Vision Battlesword [00:48:22]:
Okay, I like that. Cool. All right, great. So we've got this power within us. We can direct it as a form of force, which we could call an exercise of our will. Where our will would go would be dependent on our intent, which is to say, the focusing of our consciousness as awareness on some specific target. I feel like we're getting somewhere. So now, I guess the question would be, what are we trying to do? What is the goal? What are we trying to accomplish? And what is magic? Why do we spell magic with a k?

Edgar Sanchez [00:49:00]:
Okay, so the last question I'll answer first. Magic spelled with a k is spelled with a k because Alexa Crowley was the one who changed the spelling, and he changed it because he wanted to differentiate it from sleight of hand stage magic. And he was saying, the magic that we practice, this is not any sleight of hand stuff. We're working with angels and demons and all kinds of other spirits, and we're here to change reality, basically manifest.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:35]:
Okay, so when we see the word magic spelled m a g I c k, we're talking about the real stuff. When we see the word magic spelled m a g I c, we could be talking about trickery, optical illusions, sleight of hand, essentially entertainment.

Edgar Sanchez [00:49:52]:
Entertainment.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:53]:
Got it.

Edgar Sanchez [00:49:54]:
That's a good one. Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:49:54]:
Good. Okay. I think we're on the right track. So then what are we actually trying to do with alchemy? We've talked about raising vibrations. We've talked about transformation in the sense of converting one form into another, as in a caterpillar into a butterfly. What does that look like for a human? What does a human caterpillar into butterfly transformation look like through alchemy?

Edgar Sanchez [00:50:21]:
The human caterpillar would be a person who is not aware of their, I own authentic uniqueness and the beauty of that uniqueness that they are. And that would look like someone, for example, in a corporate setting, who's very greedy. And then the caterpillar grows and grows, right. It starts out small and through its own greed, you could say greed eats a lot of leaves. And so that would be similar to a person, like, just. Yeah, just living through their greed.

Vision Battlesword [00:50:58]:
Or maybe one could say hunger or hunger.

Edgar Sanchez [00:51:00]:
Yeah, hunger. That's a good word. Eventually, the caterpillar gets so fat and full of itself, and then it starts to suffer because it's like, at the end of its maybe, I guess, lifespan at that point. So then it goes into a dark night of the soul, and the person loses many things. Or it's a very simple metaphor for what really happens with humans, because everyone's soul is so unique. But a lot of people go through a dark night of the soul after they attain a certain amount of material possessions, which is like the caterpillar eating the leaves. And from there, they go into their cocoon, which is their dark night. And sometimes, but not always, the emerges as a butterfly.

Edgar Sanchez [00:51:45]:
Because not all caterpillars transform, unfortunately, in the real world. And I think that's the case with humans too. And, yeah, when it's a butterfly, the person is truly aware of their authentic uniqueness and beauty and is living from that state. And there's so many variations, of course, depending on the person.

Vision Battlesword [00:52:08]:
Okay, let me feed that back to you and see if I'm picking up what you're putting down. So a human caterpillar, metaphorically speaking, is a person that hasn't yet realized that they are actually creating their own reality, and that their life is a living art piece, that they are practicing alchemy, whether they are aware of it or not. And they're just sort of pursuing their hungers. Let's just say they're just sort of pursuing whatever their natural instincts or drives or the products of their learning and conditioning, just kind of putting 1ft in front of the other, but without a broader consciousness or a broader awareness of the bigger picture of the opportunities and possibilities of life, but especially of their own beautiful uniqueness, that is their contribution or their. Their opportunity to contribute to this collective manifestation or this collective reality. And then going through a process of transformation, which is like going into a chrysalis or a cocoon, being kind of literally dissolved as a person, like as a caterpillar, literally dissolves physically before being recreated in a completely different form as a butterfly, is sort of like the process of becoming more aware of themselves and their connection to the greater consciousness and the greater universe and their potential role in it. Where on the other side of that is the opportunity to have more self reflection and a self reflection of the truth of that person's, like, unique spark of this creation that is theirs and only theirs. Never was, is not now, never will be again, that specific consciousness.

Vision Battlesword [00:54:19]:
And then in the light of that awareness, to create art intentionally with their life. Is that kind of what you're saying?

Edgar Sanchez [00:54:27]:
Yes, except I will say that when they're in the caterpillar stage, they're not practicing alchemy, but they are manifesting.

Vision Battlesword [00:54:35]:
I see.

Edgar Sanchez [00:54:36]:
Yeah, like everyone's always manifesting, which is another way to say that is dreaming reality into existence the way it is. And alchemy is more of the conscious practice of going into the darkness with appreciation for it. And, I mean, there's other ways to say that, but essentially, yeah, it's transmuting through seeing the beauty, raising the frequency of something by seeing the beauty within it.

Vision Battlesword [00:55:07]:
Say more about dreaming. So that's come up a few times now, you talked about it in your discussion of Carl Jung and his whole school of psychospirituality, I think is really the only way I could describe it. What are dreams of? Like, when we're asleep, those things that we call dreams, whatever that experience is, when we're, quote unquote unconscious or whatever. What's the connection to that experience, the sleeping dreams, to this idea of dreaming reality into existence that you're talking about?

Edgar Sanchez [00:55:41]:
Yeah, it seems like dreams are a different level of reality where they allow us to see what is happening, you could say, in the underworld or the subconscious. Going to sleep is like, to the Egyptians was like dying, and it was pretty much almost equivalent to death, the process of going to sleep, at least to them. And they talk about how the way we live our life right now and the way we go to sleep is a reflection of how we will die, in a sense. But at the same time, we can always change the script and change our focus of awareness. What dreams are in relation to this is like, it implies that we went through the portal of death to see other worlds that relate to this world sometimes, but not always, because there's dreams that don't make any sense because they're from worlds that do not correspond at all to this reality. But ultimately, it's like dreams are realms that reflect where our consciousness, as the infinite one, is going and has been. And also there could be messages from those places. I don't know if that even describes what dreams or even answers your question.

Vision Battlesword [00:57:01]:
But you're blowing my mind right now. That's an amazing answer. I've got so much to even unpack and integrate.

Edgar Sanchez [00:57:09]:
Yeah, it's very mysterious, we'll say. It's like part of. It's like going into the mystery. That's like what dreams are to me.

Vision Battlesword [00:57:17]:
Cool. Well, is this a dream, what we're doing right now?

Edgar Sanchez [00:57:20]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [00:57:21]:
How so?

Edgar Sanchez [00:57:22]:
So the reason it's a dream is because if we relate it to the ultimate reality that the Yogis talked about, they say that the only thing that is real is the state of ineffable peace and stillness that exists within deep, dreamless sleep. And they say that because that's what they've observed is the state of consciousness that, for example, Buddha or Christ was in walking through the earth. Like, that's the state that they were embodying. And Jesus would call that state the kingdom of heaven, which is where you are, like a deep peace paradise within your own being.

Vision Battlesword [00:58:04]:
Is that synonymous with nirvana from the buddhist tradition?

Edgar Sanchez [00:58:08]:
Yeah. So the way Buddha. I love that question. The way Buddha defined nirvana is seeing everything as if for the first time. And that is akin to the kingdom of heaven in the sense that it relates to what Albert Einstein said, where he said that there's two ways to see life. One is as if, or everything in our life. One is as if nothing is a miracle, and the other is as if everything is a miracle. And seeing everything as if for the first time makes it so much easier to see everything as a miracle.

Vision Battlesword [00:58:42]:
That's very insightful. I'm realizing right now, because the alternative, which I think. I think is almost kind of like where a lot of people maybe spend most of their life in terms of their belief system and their consciousness, which is to say, the third option, that most things are not a miracle, but occasionally some things are. It's totally incoherent. Like, it just doesn't even like that just, like, went off in my brain like a little mini bomb that makes no sense whatsoever. Either nothing is a miracle or everything is a miracle. One of those two options is logical, but that's cool. That's really neat.

Vision Battlesword [00:59:25]:
Well, okay, but what I'm really getting at around dreams is, are the dreams that we're experiencing when we're asleep a part of the process of the creation of reality, as much as this dream that we might call our waking life? Or are they two different states, realms, experiences? Is one of them manifestation and the other not? Are they both? What does that look like?

Edgar Sanchez [00:59:53]:
Yeah, I would say that dreams are deeply interconnected with our reality, because according to shamans from all over the world, dreams are the spirit world. But at the same time, it's important to know that anything we imagine is also the spirit world. And that thoughts exist in our imagination, which means that they exist in the spirit world, too, which means that everything that we believe, all our belief systems exist in our imagination, especially our identity, our sense of self, which is why, like, it, dreams in the spirit world and this reality, it's all intertwined. It starts to intertwine so much that it becomes seamless the more you contemplate this.

Vision Battlesword [01:00:41]:
Yeah, well, that's what I was thinking while you were talking, is I want to ask you the question, like, what do you mean by spirit world? What does that even. How is that differentiated from our world? Or how many worlds are there? Is there really multiple worlds? Or is it all just one world and different vibrations, or different states of consciousness? Or, like, I don't know, give me some clarity on. Also, I wanted to ask you just about the word spirit, because that came up earlier in the conversation as well as kind of have a placeholder be like, all right, we're going to have to define that as well. But what is spirit? What is the spirit world?

Edgar Sanchez [01:01:17]:
Okay, what is spirit and what is the spirit world?

Vision Battlesword [01:01:20]:
All right, I know. Just easy questions today. Just dabbling in like, you know, oh, let's define consciousness and manifestation. Anyway, what do you mean by perfect?

Edgar Sanchez [01:01:31]:
Yeah. So I'll start by saying, talking about the difference between the great spirit and the great mystery, which is what the native Americans defined in terms of the only two things that exist and how that relates to the yin and yang symbol. So visualizing the yin and yang symbol can help make it easier to conceptualize what my answer is to your question.

Vision Battlesword [01:02:01]:
I'm loving this.

Edgar Sanchez [01:02:04]:
Yeah, there's so many associations because yin and yang or great spirit. GreAt SpirIt is the yang, the light, and then the great mystery is the darkness and yang. The light is the masculine and the darkness is the feminine. So those two forces are, in my mind always intertwined with each other to the point where it can get so confusing the way I've started to see those two things in reality and even in concepts. But I'll start by saying that great spirit is the great light, the great consciousness. So anything that relates to consciousness or light is the great spirit, the great masculine energy, the fire of the universe. And I'll go into spirit a little bit more like, what is spirit? To me, spirit is the same thing as consciousness because the word spirit in Hebrew and also in Spanish or in Latin, they come from the same word as breath. So ruch in Hebrew is spirit, and then espiritu in Spanish, espirit, and then respirar.

Edgar Sanchez [01:03:11]:
So espir, the spirit part is spirit. So how spirit and breath relate to each other and how they relate to consciousness goes into how the lungs. Our lungs, you could think of them as the wings of our heart. And our heart is like, is where consciousness emanates from, according to a lot of cultures, like the lights, basically, our true light emanates from our heart. And you can almost think of the heart as the phoenix, which goes into spirit. And how the metaphors of spirit that the alchemists used were birds. Like birds. In all the alchemical texts or esoteric books, spirit and birds were like the same thing.

Edgar Sanchez [01:03:58]:
Anytime you saw a bird, that's like a metaphor for spirit. So feathers. And then also the native Americans would use that too. And breath, so that corresponds to air. And then the phoenix, the heart, can be seen as the phoenix in relation to alchemy. And everything that we're talking about, because, as I said, the lungs are the wings of the heart. So your heart is able to fly, you can say, to travel. Your consciousness is able to travel to different places through your breath.

Edgar Sanchez [01:04:27]:
And that's why I believe the Toltecs saw the consciousness of everything as an eagle, which is, corresponds to the phoenix in the sense that Scorpio, the higher levels of Scorpio, I mean, the lower levels is the serpent and the scorpion. The higher archetypes of Scorpio are the eagle and the phoenix.

Vision Battlesword [01:04:47]:
Whoa, whoa. Okay, pause. I was totally with you right up until the Scorpio thing. Where does Scorpio come into play here?

Edgar Sanchez [01:04:56]:
Perfect question. Scorpio is, comes into play here because it's the ultimate archetype of alchemy. I think with, of all the zodiac signs, it's the most alchemical sign. And the esoteric astrologers talk about how we evolve most quickly through Scorpio, which is another way of saying that we evolve more most quickly through practicing alchemy.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:21]:
What's the connection between Scorpio and alchemy? I'm just not aware of that.

Edgar Sanchez [01:05:25]:
Oh, yeah. Scorpio and alchemy are connected because Scorpio represents the deepest darkness of ourselves and of the collective, like the most evil dark things, which the alchemist, to the alchemist, that was lead, but also they called it the prima materia, which is the perfect substance for creating the most beautiful transformation, or arthem.

Vision Battlesword [01:05:53]:
Okay, so Scorpio, the constellation and zodiac sign, represents all that stuff you just said, the darkness and so forth. Okay. And then now bring it back to whatever you were saying just a moment ago.

Edgar Sanchez [01:06:10]:
So the eagle and the phoenix.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:11]:
The eagle and the phoenix, yeah. Okay. Right.

Edgar Sanchez [01:06:13]:
And how that relates to consciousness and spirit in the sense that the great spirit was symbolized by the toltecs, and I think even the Native Americans, as being an eagle.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:24]:
Right. And what's the phoenix?

Edgar Sanchez [01:06:27]:
The phoenix is a higher level, or. Yeah, it might be a higher level of the eagle, according to different people.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:34]:
So there's something even beyond the great.

Edgar Sanchez [01:06:36]:
Spirit or above, possibly, yeah. I mean, it just, you know how they say it's turtles all the way down and it's eagles all the way up?

Vision Battlesword [01:06:44]:
Okay, where does the Condor come into play?

Edgar Sanchez [01:06:47]:
I don't know. I don't know. Haven't gotten into that, but, okay. Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:06:52]:
All right, so this piece about the yin and the yang, the great spirit and the great mystery, the masculine and the feminine, the spirit and the breath, the lungs as the wings, the eagle as the metaphor, and birds in general as metaphor for spirit. The eagle as a metaphor for the great spirit. Okay. And then I think you brought Scorpio in because you're now talking about the darkness, which is the mystery.

Edgar Sanchez [01:07:23]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:07:24]:
Okay, please continue. So now, so it sounds like we've explored the light, the masculine, the spirit. Now what's the other side of that, the mystery, the feminine, Scorpio.

Edgar Sanchez [01:07:38]:
You could say that the mystery can be symbolized by Scorpio as well. Like where all the signs have both the mystery and the spirit within them. And their own unique ways, actually. So what's the other side of the.

Vision Battlesword [01:07:52]:
Eagle then from like a native american perspective or a toltec perspective?

Edgar Sanchez [01:07:58]:
What I have so far right now as a metaphor, that is the opposite of the eagle is the lotus. Because the hindu gods would always sit on a lotus and that represented the great Mother, which is the same thing as the great mystery.

Vision Battlesword [01:08:15]:
Maybe that makes sense. Great mother, mother Earth. Pachamama is the representation of the feminine and the darkness. It's like if you imagine we go underground, we're going into the absence of light, but it's also being held it's womb. Like. Yeah, it's mysterious. Okay.

Edgar Sanchez [01:08:37]:
And then also it's like a, because the lotus is a symbol of transformation where buddhists say that the lotus blossoms most beautifully from the deepest and darkest mud. So it's a metaphor for the divine feminine when she evolves. And then the eagle is the metaphor for the divine masculine when he evolves. And, and that, of course, it's important to remember that we both have both inside of us as metaphors.

Vision Battlesword [01:09:07]:
Okay, so what I'm basically getting here is spirit equals light. That's kind of what I'm getting. Yeah, great. What's the spirit world?

Edgar Sanchez [01:09:17]:
So the spirit world is where spirit or light is inside of darkness. So when your consciousness is inside of a realm where you're seeing illusions, the Maya, which is a mystery, then you're in, you could say, the spirit world, which means that we're always in the spirit world if we have illusions around us all the time. It's just now that I've said that it's important to differentiate this world from imagination. Right, but please do. But what if, like, we're always existing within the imagination of God, which is what this is, that just loops back into that. Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:10:03]:
Right.

Edgar Sanchez [01:10:04]:
Because our minds are trying to, like, separate as, like the ego. The egoic mind tries to separate things, but it's like it's all just one thing. So maybe the more we realize that it's all interconnected and allow our minds to flow into that. It might make it easier to understand. It's kind of like the chinese finger trap. You have to go within first and then gently pull apart.

Vision Battlesword [01:10:30]:
What is an illusion? What does that even mean? I think I'm still trying to wrap my mind around. What is the concept of the spirit world, to your point, about things not really being separated or things not really being separable? What is this separation that our egoic mind is trying to, what is the differentiation that our egoic mind is trying to make about reality as compared to illusion, or about the material world as compared to the spirit world or what's an illusion?

Edgar Sanchez [01:11:05]:
So an illusion would be anything that is not real, of course, relative to the ultimate reality, which I mentioned a little bit before, which is this state that the yogis talk about of this ineffable stillness and peace. You could say beauty, where there's only light and you know that you are only light. And it's almost like, yeah, just like you can imagine it as being in the center, like what it would be like to be in the center of the sun, where it's just, you're just purely surrounded by light. You have become the light, and that's all you can see. And that's the state of pure consciousness, which is what the sun represents. And according to the mystics, that's what they say is the only thing that's real, like the kingdom of heaven. That's what Jesus would have called it, where the sun also represents union, unity with everything. And when you're in that state of feeling like oneness with everything, the wholeness, then you can relate to everything outside of yourself as not being real relative to that perspective, if that makes sense.

Edgar Sanchez [01:12:16]:
So everything else is illusion relative to that perspective, where it's ineffable peace and stillness. And there's other words that can help describe it.

Vision Battlesword [01:12:25]:
But, yeah, it sounds like what you're describing is, as you mentioned earlier, and going all the way back to the Alan Watts metaphor, it sounds like what you're describing is the dream of God or the imagination of God, as you're just saying. Yeah, it's an imagination that we create for ourselves of what if all of this different stuff existed? What if we could take the pure, ineffable consciousness of a total light being and run it through an infinite prism to separate out an infinite number of colors and wavelengths and frequencies and vibrations and all these different things and then experience them discreetly? What would that be like? And that's sort of the answer to that question. Is this, is that sort of what you're saying?

Edgar Sanchez [01:13:18]:
Yeah, pretty much.

Vision Battlesword [01:13:20]:
Okay. That's kind of what the Hermeticists say. Also, I've been reading the kabalion.

Edgar Sanchez [01:13:27]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:13:28]:
So, yeah, we've kind of come all the way back around to, well, we've kind of gone straight to the heart of the matter, if you will. But of course, we're here in this earth game to have fun. So let's keep having fun with some of these different terms. So I would like to know, what is your theory of alchemy? What is your theory of manifestation? Because this is kind of like what the phone conversation we were having the other day where you were starting to explain this to me, and as you were breaking it down, it just became so interesting that I wanted to expand on it. So why don't you give it to me now? Like, how do you think of the practice of alchemy and manifestation and how to create the reality that you would like to have or that you would choose for yourself as this living art piece in your definition?

Edgar Sanchez [01:14:24]:
Okay. Yeah. So, to me, the importance of alchemy goes into how it's like I mentioned before, about reclaiming power from the lead within our lives, the saturn, the challenging experiences. So, because those challenging experiences exist through time as a loop, and they have their own cycles. And so when we can reclaim the power from them, away from them, basically remember as. And what's happening when we do that is we're remembering who we are bit by bit, because there's not just power. There's also wisdom and love frequencies within the darkness. And the more we do that and when we do that, like, fully with a specific cycle that doesn't serve us, what will happen is that that cycle will not continue.

Edgar Sanchez [01:15:18]:
What happens instead is that those frequencies of the wholeness, of the negative situation, they ultimately transform into frequencies that, at least in my system, resonate with my greatest divine destiny, like the life that I would love to live, that would deeply resonate with me.

Vision Battlesword [01:15:40]:
How do you identify your deepest divine destiny, or triple d?

Edgar Sanchez [01:15:44]:
I think a great way to actually connect with our divine destiny on a practical level is to imagine what it would be like to be on our deathbed and feel so much gratitude and satisfaction that the people that we love the most are there with us. And we, on our deathbed, are reminiscing about all the amazing and beautiful experiences that we had of basically achieving and experiencing all of our greatest desires that deeply resonate with our heart. And so when it comes to manifesting, one of the things that I've thought about is like, what if there's only just one thing that we should manifest, and that is like, the scene of our deathbed, where it's like, our ideal deathbed scene experience, because we have, like, all these things that we think we want. But what if it would just be the most amazing thing to just experience the best kind of death with, like, the ultimate hurrah of just like, thank you, God, for this life and, like, every single aspect of it?

Vision Battlesword [01:16:47]:
Hmm.

Edgar Sanchez [01:16:48]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:16:49]:
It sounds like a very practical process for kind of reverse engineering what my deepest divine destiny is or my deepest divine desires are. Yeah, that's awesome. Does your system have a name, your personal system for alchemy and manifestation that you've created?

Edgar Sanchez [01:17:10]:
Yeah, I would say that it's divine destiny. Accelerator.

Vision Battlesword [01:17:15]:
Nice.

Edgar Sanchez [01:17:16]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:17:17]:
Tell me more about this idea of fractal consciousness or holographic consciousness. That was one of the most interesting things that I wanted to expand on from our prior, our conversation.

Edgar Sanchez [01:17:27]:
Okay. Yeah. So the way I see it, after working with or playing with the magic within the hebrew letters, I've gotten to this point where I almost felt their intelligence communicating to me what consciousness is in, like, this deep, esoteric perspective. And what I discovered, or realized maybe, is that through some clear cognizance, is that we can to understand more of how they described consciousness to me. They asked me to visualize a fractal. So if you were to imagine, or just vividly imagine a fractal that emanates from the core of your heart.

Vision Battlesword [01:18:14]:
Wait, who was asking you to imagine this?

Edgar Sanchez [01:18:16]:
So the consciousness that is within the hebrew letters?

Vision Battlesword [01:18:19]:
Yes.

Edgar Sanchez [01:18:21]:
Apparently it comes from the infinite intelligence of source. And that angels like the last two letters within pretty much all the angels names, not all of them, but most of them. Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, ends with the sound of L. L, which in the hebrew letters, it's Aleph and lamed. So two of them create the sound of El, or the name L, which is also apparently the highest name of God. And what those two letters mean. So what Aleph means, it kind of looks like an infinity sign in a way. And it means infinite lights or infinite consciousness.

Edgar Sanchez [01:19:01]:
And then lamed means intelligence or guidance. So all the angels are at their core, essence, infinite intelligence, but different aspects of infinite intelligence. And in terms of the Hebrew letters, I'll share my theories on the Hebrew letters first before I share more about the fractal nature of consciousness. The Hebrew letters, from my understanding, is that they were downloaded by some powerful mystics or magicians who were deeply connected to pure consciousness. And each Hebrew letter is a different or distinct flavor of pure consciousness that has its own quality structure, even, you could say, textures to imagine it more evocatively. So with that being said, if each Hebrew letter is a pure flavor of consciousness or of pure consciousness, when you put them together, what you're getting is like a unique type of food or dish of consciousness itself. And so you could, and that's how you can see, like, the angels as well, where they're written with a specific combination of HebRew letters. And so you're getting a specific frequency of pure consciousness.

Edgar Sanchez [01:20:24]:
And another thing that they told me is that, so you could say, the angels told me, that's another way. It's like the hebrew letters, the angels. It's kind of hard to distinguish sometimes, but I, yeah. Another thing that I learned is that each hebrew letter is also a fractal. That is a pure flavor of consciousness. And so when you put them together, it's like you're getting almost like a metafractal of something. And then how that relates to us and our consciousness being a fractal is that our fractal is much more multidimensional than the hebrew letters. And even though the angels are big and highly intelligent, they're actually expressions or extensions of our own consciousness, since we're pure consciousness.

Edgar Sanchez [01:21:06]:
And the way the fractal can be visualized is that it starts, the center of it starts from the heart and then expands in infinite directions, even not just through space, but also through time. And it's very difficult to visualize the true nature and structure of it. It might be easier with psychedelics, but the reason they gave me that metaphor of consciousness being a fractal that extends, expands through our heart. In other words, the light is a fractal that expands through our heart. Because light and consciousness are the same, in a way, what that means is that the structure of this fractal, that is our consciousness, determines how reality is manifesting at any given moment. And so what manifestation does is that it shifts the structure of this fractal in specific ways, which basically shifts the way things come into our reality.

Vision Battlesword [01:22:03]:
What do you mean when you say each hebrew letter is a fractal? What does that mean?

Edgar Sanchez [01:22:08]:
So what I mean by that is that whenever I would see the hebrew letters, I would see a fractal that would spiral from them.

Vision Battlesword [01:22:17]:
Oh, okay.

Edgar Sanchez [01:22:18]:
And, yeah, it has, like, its own specific structure that's different to other hebrew letters. Does that make sense? Like, geometry has its own frequencies. Emotions?

Vision Battlesword [01:22:30]:
Yeah.

Edgar Sanchez [01:22:31]:
I don't know if emotions is the right term, but it's like, frequencies would be a better term.

Vision Battlesword [01:22:35]:
How do you see these fractals? When you're studying the hebrew letters, is this in a state of meditation? Does it occur to you just as a visualization within your imagination? Whenever you see the character with your eyes, do you see it visually with your eyes? Do you see it in a dream? Like, I'm just curious how that manifests for you.

Edgar Sanchez [01:23:00]:
Okay. Yeah, I mostly, like, feel them and feel their unique frequency, and most of the time, I don't see them as a fractal. That was just, like, the concept that was kind of downloaded to me, and then I was shown a little bit of what they kind of look like. You could also think of the fractals as being cymatic patterns, because cymatic patterns are three dimensional representations, or a lot of times two dimensional with sand, but they can also be three dimensional representations of frequencies in the form of geometries. And so that's another way to think of the hebrew letters, is that they have their own specific type of cymatic patterns. When you extend that into higher dimensions, you see fractals.

Vision Battlesword [01:23:45]:
So what you're telling me right now is that the hebrew characters, the characters of the hebrew Alphabet are actually symbols that represent fractal geometry.

Edgar Sanchez [01:23:57]:
Fractal geometry of pure consciousness.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:00]:
Did you read that anywhere? Or is that something that is like a new thought that actually just occurred to. To you in. Through your studies?

Edgar Sanchez [01:24:09]:
Yeah, it was just. I got it through practicing magic, or the magic that I practice is scanning the hebrew letters in words and then calling on the angels from them out. And then I just got the download out one day that, oh, I think that what's happening is each one is a fractal. And so I started receiving that information. I didn't. Haven't read it anywhere, but, dude, that is wild.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:35]:
That is amazing and fascinating. Do you intend to write all this down?

Edgar Sanchez [01:24:41]:
Yeah, I have it written.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:43]:
Okay, great.

Edgar Sanchez [01:24:44]:
Most of it. I'm still writing so much.

Vision Battlesword [01:24:47]:
Okay, so the hebrew letters, each of them individually is a fractal. Each of them individually represents a pure state of consciousness. When we put them together, we get sort of compound states of consciousness or complex states of consciousness, which, of course, is equivalent to a more complex fractal geometry. It is also equivalent to angels, meaning these states of consciousness that we can sort of call upon for insight or guidance or additional information, which is also another way of saying different versions or reflections or frequencies of God. That is the most pure form of goddess, that is an intelligent light being. So far, so good.

Edgar Sanchez [01:25:31]:
Yeah. All right.

Vision Battlesword [01:25:32]:
Just trying to make sure I'm keeping up. And then. So from that point, you started receiving the information about the fractal nature of human consciousness and human experience, which is centered in the heart, or rather, it emanates from the heart. Is that how you conceive of it? Is that what you believe?

Edgar Sanchez [01:25:53]:
Yeah, because it also corresponds to how we have a torus field.

Vision Battlesword [01:25:59]:
Yes.

Edgar Sanchez [01:26:00]:
And the solar system also has a Taurus field. And the center of the torus fields of the solar system and us is the heart and the sun.

Vision Battlesword [01:26:08]:
Right. Yeah. I was going to ask you if there's an aspect of that, of the actual toroidal electromagnetic field that we, as human beings emanate.

Edgar Sanchez [01:26:19]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:26:20]:
Because we are, in fact, bioelectrical systems, which appears to, or apparently is centered on the heart. Or the heart is that sort of electromagnetic generator of that field. So all of that is synonymous with consciousness and with spirit. Sort of like, that is our spiritual field. That is also like our field of consciousness. It's all kind of one and the same.

Edgar Sanchez [01:26:45]:
Yeah. And I would also say that the deeper you get to the center of the sun or of your heart, the more pure the consciousness is. And the center never ends. It's like it keeps going, from my understanding, because with the fractal, it never ends. Right. So the purification goes on forever.

Vision Battlesword [01:27:06]:
What does that mean, purity, though? How could consciousness be less pure or more pure?

Edgar Sanchez [01:27:12]:
It seems like another way of saying that the closer you get to the center, the higher the frequency of the Hawkins scale will be. Okay.

Vision Battlesword [01:27:21]:
Got it. So we're kind of approaching infinite. We're approaching an infinitely high vibration.

Edgar Sanchez [01:27:30]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:27:31]:
And we would call that infinitely high vibration purity, for lack of a better way. Got it. And so what we're saying is that the greater the distance. And this is, again, just one more time reflecting back on. We're all talking about the same thing because we talked about this toward the beginning of the conversation about the distance from the sun, closer to Saturn being the progression from gold, which is to say the highest expression or the highest vibration toward lead, which is the lower, lowest vibration. All we're really saying is that the greater the distance, our consciousness, magnetic spiritual field from our original source, the lower the vibration.

Edgar Sanchez [01:28:19]:
Yeah. In general, I mean, it's a metaphor because there's also. It's also important to take into account that there's other stars and each person is a star.

Vision Battlesword [01:28:31]:
So our fields are all interacting with each other, which makes it an even more complex fractal geometry, because we got fractals playing with other fractals everywhere, making new fractals in the middle of our fractal overlaps and all this different stuff.

Edgar Sanchez [01:28:49]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:28:50]:
Sounds like a great mystery.

Edgar Sanchez [01:28:51]:
Yeah, as you mentioned. Yeah, exactly. That's why I feel like I don't know anything.

Vision Battlesword [01:28:58]:
So what do you do? It sounds like you know a lot. That's my opinion. But tell me more about alchemy and magic and manifestation. Let's. So now let's start to get practical. Coming back to that term that you, you brought up earlier, practice. So what is your practice of alchemy or magic that you referred to earlier?

Edgar Sanchez [01:29:21]:
Yeah, my practice is about working with the subconscious mind. Another way to say that is working with the challenging emotions holographically, by pointing first to where they are in the body and then asking myself, what color do I notice? So I can just do it right now and then. So right now I'm noticing, like, a dark brown that's, like, muddy, has some yellow in it, and then pulling it away from the body. So first, feeling it fully, actually, as much as possible, and associating into the experience, because the more you associate into the experience and the more you feel it, the more power you can reclaim from it. And then once you have fully felt it, you can pull it away from your body. And as you're pulling it away, you can allow yourself to notice what textures, sounds you hear from it and other sub modalities. So, like, what smells, even flavors, if you want to taste it? Because the more you engage different senses, the more you're starting to use different parts of your mind that correspond to those different senses. And the brain also works holographically to retrieve memories as well.

Edgar Sanchez [01:30:34]:
So instead of going through memories, you're going into the emotions, which is still connected to those memories. And so even though you're not going back in time, you're still healing the past, alchemizing it in this system.

Vision Battlesword [01:30:48]:
Sorry, real quick. So when we say holographically, what I'm picking up from the way you're describing this is we're talking about building up a multi dimensional sensory experience. Like a. Like. So when we're talking about holographically, we're talking about, like, as in, from a technology perspective, the projection of a high fidelity representation of whatever that experience is, using all of our different senses and other information as well, including thoughts and intuition and all whatever information we've got. It's like a complete picture of the thing in this case an emotion.

Edgar Sanchez [01:31:32]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:31:32]:
Okay, great. I'm following.

Edgar Sanchez [01:31:34]:
And so once you have identified all the some modalities and have that frequency in front of you, what's also happening is that by putting it in front of you, you're disassociating it from it more. And what you can do is you can even grab it from the ends, trace the edges around it. Since it's three dimensional, you can kind of feel it. You're almost, like, miming it into existence. And then you can also grab the ends of it and notice that as you pull it to expand it, kind of like you're expanding something on your phone, you'll start to feel it more. And then as you shrink it with your hands and lower it as well, you'll feel it less. And what you'll notice, too, when you lower it, like, below your torso, is that you're basically feeling like you have more power over it. Because that's what you're telling your subconscious mind when it's lower.

Edgar Sanchez [01:32:25]:
And then you can put it back up. And the more you play with it in this way, you're telling your subconscious is registering how much power you have over this situation. Because you can make it more intense if you want, you can brighten the colors, and that makes it more intense too. And then shrinking lower, dim the colors as well.

Vision Battlesword [01:32:45]:
In this case, does power really mean something? Cause we defined power very specifically earlier. In this case, does power really mean something more like control or force?

Edgar Sanchez [01:32:55]:
Power, in this case, to me, always relates to love in some way. In the sense that the power over the situation is more effective when you are appreciating the art, which is the negative emotions. And the reason I say art is because that's how the infinite one or the being that has lived more than it's like. What would it be like to see from a perspective of a being who has lived more than 100 or thousands or millions or billions of years, what would it be like to see from that being's perspective? Or infant ears. Right? And it would see. I think what it would see is everything is transient. And that's why it would appreciate every single thing in reality or our reality, too. And so that's why it would see, like, these negative emotions as art.

Edgar Sanchez [01:33:48]:
And the more you can align yourself with that perspective, which will happen more naturally if you think about a time of what it's like when you experience, like, deep appreciation for something or someone and allow that. Allow yourself to see what colors that's associated with where you feel and feel it in your body and do the same thing with eliciting the different states or some modalities. And then once you have it. So for me, it's like multicolored above my head and deep appreciation, and I can, like, bring it back. What I do is bring it through my body, through my heart, so that I become that, in a sense, and from there, project that appreciation towards the negative emotions and that ultimately, through that appreciation of the art, it helps to alchemize. And you can have fun exploring, like the, like, the depths of what's inside this art that God created, ultimately, or which is your true self, pure consciousness. And as you do that, you'll start to notice that the frequency in the different places within the negative emotions that you elicited start to raise. And that will also correspond to what's happening in your body.

Edgar Sanchez [01:35:08]:
And then you can also look for the heart within it and allow yourself to go into where the light is. And that light is almost like the heart of different versions of yourself within the hologram of time that are experiencing those negative emotions. And you'll start to realize that those parts of you are in a state where they are needing a certain type of love. And it's different types of love depending on the different parts of you or versions of you that are experiencing, that experience those experiences of negative emotions within the hologram of time and can just practice the self love aspects of asking what they need, what frequencies they would like. And eventually you'll get better and better at understanding empathetically what they need. And so this is like inner child healing as well. It's pretty much almost the same thing, but a different perspective on it. But it's not just inner child.

Edgar Sanchez [01:36:13]:
It's also like inner teenager, inner adult, who went through challenging experiences as well. And so you're allowing yourself to meet those parts that are represented or connected to those negative emotions. And once you feel the light and see them, and once they feel like that love and acceptance and they want to embrace, then that's when you bring it back in and everything will shift.

Vision Battlesword [01:36:40]:
I just want to describe what you're doing to help me to integrate it and just sort of understand and appreciate it. So you're actually, you're doing a lot of motion with your hands. You're first putting your hands on your body as you're kind of identifying as you were talking about those colors and those felt sensations and the exact location where you're finding them in your body. And then to me, as I'm witnessing it, it looks like a form of energy work. You know, it reminds me of some things I've learned and practiced a little bit, a little tiny bit with, like, qigong and where you're. So you're putting your hands on your body, you're identifying, you're starting to build up that hologram, that multidimensional, fully sensory picture of that emotion, whatever it is that that looks like, feels like, smells like, even tastes like, and all that stuff. And then you're physically pulling it out of your body, which to me is really interesting, because we talk about making this subject to object move in psychology a lot. But it's something that, at least, as all of the times I've ever learned it or practiced it myself, is something that happens entirely in your mind, in your sort of mental state, in your imagination.

Vision Battlesword [01:38:02]:
You're doing it physically. You're literally taking that and objectifying it. You're pulling it physically out of your body with your hands. You're placing it in front of yourself so that you can now actually witness it separate as a separate entity, if you will, when you're manipulating it like we, you know, zoom, you know, the pinch gesture that we do on a multi touch screen or whatever, to zoom or to scale an object. You're doing that with your hands. You can grow it, you can shrink it. You can even maybe change its shape and change its form. I want to ask a question at that step.

Vision Battlesword [01:38:40]:
Are you physically feeling it with your hands? Does it feel like a solid object to you externally?

Edgar Sanchez [01:38:47]:
It doesn't feel like a solid object, but I know that I feel like it can feel that way. Depending on how psychically sensitive someone is, I will determine how deeply they're experiencing that. And I will also say that for me, yeah. I did feel energies, though, and some density, you could say heaviness. And the more some modalities you elicit from these negative emotions, the deeper into trance you will go.

Vision Battlesword [01:39:22]:
Can you just crystallize and define that word for me? No, you're saying soma dalities.

Edgar Sanchez [01:39:29]:
Oh, sub modalities.

Vision Battlesword [01:39:31]:
Sub modalities.

Edgar Sanchez [01:39:32]:
Submodalities. Thank you.

Vision Battlesword [01:39:32]:
Okay, I just want to be clear on that. And a modality in this case is like a sense perception.

Edgar Sanchez [01:39:38]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:39:39]:
Okay. Got it.

Edgar Sanchez [01:39:40]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:39:40]:
And you say the more sub modalities that you can layer onto the experience, the deeper into trance that you'll go. And so this is a trance state from your perspective?

Edgar Sanchez [01:39:52]:
Yeah. And the reason I say that and emphasize trance is because I've studied hypnosis and I've gotten certified in it, and then I studied a lot of manifestation. And what I realized, especially Neville Goddard manifestation. What they both seem to say is that the more relaxed someone is or the deeper into state of trance someone is. For example, in Neville Goddard system, it's the state akin to sleep. In hypnosis. It's. Yeah.

Edgar Sanchez [01:40:20]:
Just the more floored like, the more through the floor they are, in trance like, into those delta waves, the more powerful the changes and shifts will be. And what I realized is that hypnosis, what hypnosis and manifesting both have in common is that they're both about reprogramming the subconscious mind. And so whenever you're doing a manifestation technique, you're doing self hypnosis at the end of the day.

Vision Battlesword [01:40:49]:
And that's also to say, which is another way of saying self programming.

Edgar Sanchez [01:40:54]:
Yeah. And then on a deeper, esoteric level, it's more effective or more practical to think to not. Instead of thinking of reprogramming the subconscious, it's more practical to think that you're shifting into a new awareness instead of reprogramming the subconscious. And the reason why is because shifting into a new awareness shifts you into a new identity, which is what? One of the most like, it's on the higher level, on a hierarchy of how we see our world. And so on the highest level, it's dream or purpose. This actually goes into the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but it also applies in correspondence with the chakras, but also how we just see the world in general. And so the highest is purpose. Right.

Edgar Sanchez [01:41:48]:
But then below that is identity. And even though it's like a hierarchy of needs, it's still. There's a system for it that relates psychologically that can be worked with to influence people or influence ourselves. So purpose, identity, below identities values, because specific identities have specific values. Then below values, it's beliefs. And the reason why it's kind of like within one value, there could be multiple beliefs. And then below beliefs, it's actions. So the reason you take actions is because of subconscious.

Edgar Sanchez [01:42:25]:
And then below actions is emotions. Below emotions is thoughts.

Vision Battlesword [01:42:29]:
Interesting. You kind of lost me there at the end, but I don't know that it's the right moment to dive in and unpack all of that, because. Yeah, you brought up identity and then this entire hierarchy. What hierarchy is this? Purpose, identity, values, beliefs, actions, emotions and thoughts. I've never seen that before.

Edgar Sanchez [01:42:51]:
This is from the work of this guy named Kenrick Cleveland. And he is apparently. Yeah, he's definitely one of the world's leading experts in persuasion, psychology for large businesses.

Vision Battlesword [01:43:07]:
Interesting.

Edgar Sanchez [01:43:07]:
Yeah. And his system for selling it actually corresponds very profoundly to manifesting and guiding people to manifest their dreams as you sell them. So it's pretty wild. And he's not very spiritual at all, too. But I've noticed that by using his system and guiding people through the process, like, you're helping the person manifest what their ultimate goals are.

Vision Battlesword [01:43:34]:
There's a whole other can of worms over there. But I want to come back to. And you threw identity, in, which I was like, oh, man, now we got to define a whole nother term. But anyway, no, we don't. We're going to put that can of worms, putting the cap back on it. We're going to set it over there for a different conversation. But for right now, I'm coming back to. I've got ahold right now.

Vision Battlesword [01:43:53]:
I'm describing what you were doing before, but now I've, like, reframed it back to, like, as if I'm doing it. I've got a hold of an emotion which is now a physical, multidimensional hologram that I've separated from myself, and I've literally got my hands on. And I have discovered that I can manipulate it. I've layered on many, many submodalities, which is to say, I've built up a high fidelity holographic representation of this particular memory or experience or internal part or whatever this thing is that I've managed to now externalize, which means that I am dropping into and have dropped into a very, very deep trance state, which is also another way of saying state of self hypnosis, which is also another way of saying I'm accessing a deepen level of my own subconscious or my own consciousness. And I now have the opportunity, I have discovered, to make changes to it. I'm literally experiencing a physical representation of that. I am noticing that, hey, wait, I can change this. I have agency over this.

Vision Battlesword [01:45:07]:
One could say I have power over this. But what we've discovered is that we don't mean power in terms of the exercise of force, as in, like, I have power over you in a subjugated sense. But rather, what we mean to say is, I've actually discovered that I have the opportunity to layer love onto this, or I have the opportunity to layer appreciation onto this or different levels of meaning and interpretation. And in realizing my agency, in the ability to transform this experience, I now have the opportunity to alchemize it, to transmute it, to raise its vibration. If I would like to do that, that I can then now choose to bring back into my physical body as a metaphor of bringing it back into my overall state of awareness, my state of consciousness, my state of existence, and then reintegrate that. And then I was also seeing you using your hands again as you brought that memory, experience, emotion, whatever that is, back into your physical body, sort of touching different parts of yourself, almost like smoothing it from the top to the bottom, like imagining that if that's like a hologram of myself, witnessing that shadow copy of me reintegrating back into my physical form from top to bottom, head to toe, in and out, all the way into the heart. Oh, that's right. And then there was that additional step, which is important, which was locating the heart center of that emotion, of that experience, recognizing the connection, in fact, the identity, the identical nature of that heart center and my own heart center, and seeing how that is the connection point between me and this, and then that reshaping process and using that as the location to bring that back into my own consciousness.

Vision Battlesword [01:47:14]:
Did I kind of say that right?

Edgar Sanchez [01:47:15]:
I think you said it perfectly.

Vision Battlesword [01:47:17]:
Nice.

Edgar Sanchez [01:47:18]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:47:19]:
I've never heard of anything like that before, but that sounds really cool. I'm very impressed with you. Yeah.

Edgar Sanchez [01:47:24]:
And what's really beautiful about it, too, is that it can integrate this system, can integrate itself into so many different healing modalities. For example, shadow work, Reiki, inner child healing. Like trauma therapy, possibly. I mean, in the sense, like trauma therapy if you have enough techniques to create a safe space before beginning the process. And what I mean by safe space is. Yeah. Felt sense of safety. And one of the main techniques that I do for that is mother tree grounding or mother tree meditation technique, where you allow your spirit to connect with the mother tree.

Edgar Sanchez [01:48:05]:
And that has, like, physiological effects on the nervous system that activates the vagus nerve. Yeah. Just does all the great stuff that EFT does. This is through accessing the spiritual dimension.

Vision Battlesword [01:48:19]:
Mm hmm. An EFT is emotional freedom technique or tapping.

Edgar Sanchez [01:48:24]:
Tapping, yeah, that's the part where you.

Vision Battlesword [01:48:27]:
Speak to yourself in a sort of hypnotic way. Generally, you're speaking sort of specific thoughts or affirmations that you'd like to program into your system while you're tapping on very specific, I guess, pressure points or energy points. Energy centers on your body. Body. Just in case anybody's not familiar with that.

Edgar Sanchez [01:48:49]:
Yeah.

Vision Battlesword [01:48:49]:
Cool. Wow. Well, it took us a minute to get there, but I'm happy that I was able to fully comprehend your explanation of your technique. Awesome. And that is really, really fascinating to me, and I really like it, and it seems to me that we have easily set ourselves up for one or more follow up conversations where we can open up all different cans of worms. Like this particular Ken Cleveland hierarchy is really interesting to me. I'd like to dive into that, and there's a few other things that we brought up that I'd like to dive into, so I could see this kind of becoming a series or a sequence that we can build on if you're.

Edgar Sanchez [01:49:27]:
Game, to continue a game.

Vision Battlesword [01:49:29]:
Nice. Is there anything that you would like to say as a final thought on the whole concept of alchemy?

Edgar Sanchez [01:49:37]:
Yeah, as a final thought, I wanted to get into the ultimate goal that the most enlightened alchemists have or had in the past, which, for them, their ultimate goal, they're pretty crazy. And what they wanted was to use their knowledge to ultimately create a better world for everyone. That was their ultimate purpose, is to manifest the great restoration or the new golden age of earth. And they felt that alchemy is the most efficient and effective way to accomplish that. And so I feel like I might be a reincarnation of an alchemist with all the knowledge that I have about it and the practice. And I say that as, like, playfully and not taking it seriously, because it's just. They were crazy people. I'm a crazy person for.

Edgar Sanchez [01:50:38]:
For wanting to create a better world that is, like, beyond what even most spiritual people think is possible. But, yeah, like, ultimately, I think the method for that is through a concept called majestically prolific miracles, where people are applying alchemy on a mass scale, which is what is helping to manifest positive things faster for ourselves in our own lives individually. But it also influences the collective, so more people are doing it, the more. Yeah, quickly it can happen with us experiencing the more beautiful world that our heart know is possible.

Vision Battlesword [01:51:22]:
To quote Charles Eisenstein.

Edgar Sanchez [01:51:23]:
Yeah. To quote Charles Eisenstein, fantastic.

Vision Battlesword [01:51:26]:
You may be a reincarnation and you may be crazy, but in my opinion, you definitely are an alchemist, no matter what else may be true. And if it's crazy to yearn for and work toward a more beautiful world that our hearts know is possible, then I don't want to be sane.

Edgar Sanchez [01:51:47]:
Yeah, right.

Vision Battlesword [01:51:49]:
Thank you so much for this conversation, Edgar. I cannot wait to do our next one. And I. This was just so great. You blew my mind about 26 times today, and I got a lot of food for thought. So thanks again.

Edgar Sanchez [01:52:01]:
Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Vision Battlesword [01:52:04]:
Yeah, you're welcome.